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A better budget system

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JambalayaSam
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Post: #1
A better budget system

Suggestion: Rework the budgetary details mechanics to give a certain number of percentage allocations per influence level, rather than a simple 4% modifier per influence. States could expend all allocations on increasing the Welfare budget, for example, by not increasing spending in other areas.

Examples: https://www.ars-regendi.com/state/212490...tail1.html

In this case, Darmstadt's leader would have 1.5 influence. They would get 80 total influence points (per level) with which to edit the budget. Since the population has a lot of starvation, the leader could increase the Welfare budget by 80% to combat the starvation problems, or spread it across other tax decreases or budget increases. This increases state flexibility.

30.08.2019 22:38
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MrProper
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Post: #2
RE: A better budget system

I can see why you would like having a reworked budget system. From my point of view, I would not call it a better bugdet system. In fact, it makes the game much easier. That applies in particular to the more challenging templates. Furthermore, the alternative budget system you propose could easily produce ridiculously arms races in Worlds. Changes in the military budget are, however, highly restricted by the current system.

Iran, Columbia, India and GDR states are supposed to be challenging. In order to be successful, you have to tackle their issues from the start.


冥王星違法です
04.09.2019 16:48
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Shenat
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Post: #3
RE: A better budget system

I agree that a more reasonable, and smaller, level of change would be more practical, but the idea of a certain collective limit to funding change makes more sense, as is you could reduce taxes 20+% and increase spending the same amount, and that would never be possible in real world politics.

This does sound a little difficult to decide on and implement, but maybe the idea could be considered a low priority goal for eventual implementation.


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04.09.2019 22:54
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Greater_Zenith
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Post: #4
RE: A better budget system

MrProper Wrote:
I can see why you would like having a reworked budget system. From my point of view, I would not call it a better bugdet system. In fact, it makes the game much easier. That applies in particular to the more challenging templates. Furthermore, the alternative budget system you propose could easily produce ridiculously arms races in Worlds. Changes in the military budget are, however, highly restricted by the current system.

Iran, Columbia, India and GDR states are supposed to be challenging. In order to be successful, you have to tackle their issues from the start.

I respectfully disagree.

Making the game "easier" does not necessarily mean "worse". In fact, I would argue that given how tasks work it is already 100% feasible to "game" the system/budget to get desired results by putting specific tasks on hold (and/or never doing them at all). For example, my first state was doing fine until I chose a bad task option which I did not know would nuke my state's commerce - next time I will simply sit it out, hence avoiding it entirely and saving myself the bad stats. It is certainly easier - and already implemented. But if the budget worked differently, I would not have to worry about doing such an underhanded trick.

As for harder templates: My understanding from looking at worlds seems to be that more people are going to end up in hard or really hard templates than on the easy ones. Should it not be the other way around? Surely managing a superpower must be more difficult than managing a developing nation?

This post was last modified: 07.09.2019 00:27 by Greater_Zenith.

07.09.2019 00:26
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JambalayaSam
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Post: #5
RE: A better budget system

Shenat Wrote:
I agree that a more reasonable, and smaller, level of change would be more practical, but the idea of a certain collective limit to funding change makes more sense, as is you could reduce taxes 20+% and increase spending the same amount, and that would never be possible in real world politics.

This does sound a little difficult to decide on and implement, but maybe the idea could be considered a low priority goal for eventual implementation.


I'd argue that is the Republican party's platform in the states Wink

10.09.2019 14:32
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MrProper
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Post: #6
RE: A better budget system

Greater_Zenith Wrote:
I respectfully disagree.

Making the game "easier" does not necessarily mean "worse".

On one hand, do not forget that challenges are a way to provide fun in a game. On the other hand, keep also in mind that Ars Regendi strives to be a half-realistic political and economical simulaton. All the templates are based on the year 1990. However, even almost 30 years later the respective "problem nations" struggle to create afordable pension/wellfare systems. India, for example, has a system that mostly consists of subsidies for food (and other needs) while also having a big problem with malnutrition, mostly due to poverty. Limiting your flexibility in the budget may seem unfair, but is realistic with respect to modelling challenges in the real world.

Greater_Zenith Wrote:
As for harder templates: My understanding from looking at worlds seems to be that more people are going to end up in hard or really hard templates than on the easy ones. Should it not be the other way around? Surely managing a superpower must be more difficult than managing a developing nation?

Many new players come from a background of more rapid and aggressive online games. Experience has shown that they tend to more aggressive play styles, including random nuking of neutral states for testing purposes. Easier templates are more potent with respect to the military and, therefore, better off in the hands of experienced players (who are usually more gentle to new players).

However, given that the number of quick start worlds is increasing, the chance of grabing better templates will be increasing for everyone.


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11.09.2019 23:50
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Greater_Zenith
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Post: #7
RE: A better budget system

MrProper Wrote:
On one hand, do not forget that challenges are a way to provide fun in a game.

True on your first point - but remember that challenges are also the most fun when taken voluntarily. Otherwise you are effecting weighting down a player's ability to play the game the way they want just because you want it to be more difficult. Challenges can indeed be fun - difficulty for the sake of it, not so much.

MrProper Wrote:
All the templates are based on the year 1990. However, even almost 30 years later the respective "problem nations" struggle to create afordable pension/wellfare systems. India, for example, has a system that mostly consists of subsidies for food (and other needs) while also having a big problem with malnutrition, mostly due to poverty. Limiting your flexibility in the budget may seem unfair, but is realistic with respect to modelling challenges in the real world.

But that has frankly to do with ideological reasons and mismanagement rather than any practical reason. Consider India: Despite having massive economic potential, it still continues to have a semi-feudal caste system in the year 2019. There is no way such a thing does not weight down the economy and society - yet in the game it is not present at all, not to mention the other more unrealistic aspects (such as the player running any possible state under the German system, as opposed to a different division of powers like say Japan or USA). Or, as I said before, "sitting out" a task and nullifying all of it's negative effects instead of making a choice, as would be necessary in real life.

And then again, truly practical reasons for bad economies - like Congo's supply of Coltan (one of the most sought-after minerals for electronics) being mostly in the hands of warlords are not modeled.

MrProper Wrote:
Many new players come from a background of more rapid and aggressive online games. Experience has shown that they tend to more aggressive play styles, including random nuking of neutral states for testing purposes. Easier templates are more potent with respect to the military and, therefore, better off in the hands of experienced players (who are usually more gentle to new players).

However, given that the number of quick start worlds is increasing, the chance of grabing better templates will be increasing for everyone.

Again, I mean no disrespect whatsoever - in my view the game is fun, but there are some key flaws that could certain help the player count. One of them is indeed the lack of available templates (I do not know for how long the game has been running, but eight templates in 2019 assuming the game came out in 2017 is... Rather few).

The solution in my view is not to punish new players with a super-hard template, but to make more, less threatening templates available. You said 1990 - alright, what about making a Romania template? Ceausescu already paid all the national debt by then and austerity is in effect, so players would get to start with a positive budget... Yet, without the USSR backing it, Romania is nowhere near capable of being a regional power. It's military would be no greater than the GDR template... But the difficulty curve would be far less, given the budget surplus and adequate indicators.

This post was last modified: 12.09.2019 00:50 by Greater_Zenith.

12.09.2019 00:48
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