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Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

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Helsworth
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Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why


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16.03.2016 11:37
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Ajay Alcos
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Post: #2
RE: Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

Helsworth Wrote:

Simple, logical and as Asher states - straightforward. Why can't the average person understand that a few individuals accumulating too much wealth is bad. The more wealth given to those with less means more money becomes more fluid and active, invigorating circulation and confidence rather than just becoming some stagnant pond in a billionaires bank-account. You can read it in psychology. When one person has everything in the world, they usually become content and hence complacent. When another person has nothing but the clothes on their back, they strive to earn something more. Oh well, no point ranting sigh...

16.03.2016 15:54
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Helsworth
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Post: #3
RE: Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

So-called progressives voting for Clinton will deliver the presidency to Trump. Fascism is capitalism in decay. And the faux democrat left is not going to fix it. People are voting for a corporate bought politician that will bring about "change". Talk about delusional thinking. Trump vs Clinton is a nightmare scenario.
Politics aside, when I tell MMTers that politicians can & ought to invoke MMT talking points in their debates, and that there's no danger for them as sounding like "nuts" because the info might be lost to the audience - I'm met with skepticism. Frankly, I feel the opposite effect would be true. Because the pyre of connection is right there in people's minds, all it needs is a spark. And that spark can come from any political side, so long as it is a comment consistent with stock-flow accounting. But anyway, the US electoral system is not a democracy...


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This post was last modified: 16.03.2016 16:31 by Helsworth.

16.03.2016 16:27
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Ajay Alcos
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Post: #4
RE: Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

Helsworth Wrote:
So-called progressives voting for Clinton will deliver the presidency to Trump. Fascism is capitalism in decay. And the faux democrat left is not going to fix it. People are voting for a corporate bought politician that will bring about "change". Talk about delusional thinking. Trump vs Clinton is a nightmare scenario.
Politics aside, when I tell MMTers that politicians can & ought to invoke MMT talking points in their debates, and that there's no danger for them as sounding like "nuts" because the info might be lost to the audience - I'm met with skepticism. Frankly, I feel the opposite effect would be true. Because the pyre of connection is right there in people's minds, all it needs is a spark. And that spark can come from any political side, so long as it is a comment consistent with stock-flow accounting. But anyway, the US electoral system is not a democracy...

Naturally, the US can only described as something a step-above from the Roman Republic (i.e. a more "bottom heavy" oligarchy), albeit nowadays without a slave-trade (just allot of cheap labour). What I find most ironic however is how MMTers as well as other monetarists try their utmost to present their economic "theorems" in such a simplistic manner (e.g. Laffer curve) and yet adopt the elitist belief that the average person wouldn't understand a clue about basic economic theory. Truly I have a feeling that America is steering the world into the unknown, without any contingency.

17.03.2016 02:28
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Helsworth
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Post: #5
RE: Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

Ajay Alcos Wrote:

Helsworth Wrote:
So-called progressives voting for Clinton will deliver the presidency to Trump. Fascism is capitalism in decay. And the faux democrat left is not going to fix it. People are voting for a corporate bought politician that will bring about "change". Talk about delusional thinking. Trump vs Clinton is a nightmare scenario.
Politics aside, when I tell MMTers that politicians can & ought to invoke MMT talking points in their debates, and that there's no danger for them as sounding like "nuts" because the info might be lost to the audience - I'm met with skepticism. Frankly, I feel the opposite effect would be true. Because the pyre of connection is right there in people's minds, all it needs is a spark. And that spark can come from any political side, so long as it is a comment consistent with stock-flow accounting. But anyway, the US electoral system is not a democracy...

Naturally, the US can only described as something a step-above from the Roman Republic (i.e. a more "bottom heavy" oligarchy), albeit nowadays without a slave-trade (just allot of cheap labour). What I find most ironic however is how MMTers as well as other monetarists try their utmost to present their economic "theorems" in such a simplistic manner (e.g. Laffer curve) and yet adopt the elitist belief that the average person wouldn't understand a clue about basic economic theory. Truly I have a feeling that America is steering the world into the unknown, without any contingency.

Couldn't agree more, Ajay. Well said.


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17.03.2016 13:55
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yangusbeef
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Post: #6
RE: Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

Money isn't being tickled down because of the exact over regulations that Bernie and Hillary are proposing. How about we stop this subsidies/corporate oligarchy nonsense and begin supporting small businesses that will bring about high money velocity. It is no coincidence that a high rate of small business failure coincides with a slowing economy! To clarify, taking money out the system and then throwing money at inefficient and ineffective government agents is not the answer. It is those programs that are sucking the life blood out of the economy just as much as those crooked top 1%ers. So, for now, commit to balancing the budget and restoring small business, the market will recover from there. All it needs is a little anti-regulation from the state, something that is unheard of from these neo-socialists.

18.03.2016 01:01
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Post: #7
RE: Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

yangusbeef Wrote:
Money isn't being tickled down because of the exact over regulations that Bernie and Hillary are proposing. How about we stop this subsidies/corporate oligarchy nonsense and begin supporting small businesses that will bring about high money velocity. It is no coincidence that a high rate of small business failure coincides with a slowing economy! To clarify, taking money out the system and then throwing money at inefficient and ineffective government agents is not the answer. It is those programs that are sucking the life blood out of the economy just as much as those crooked top 1%ers. So, for now, commit to balancing the budget and restoring small business, the market will recover from there. All it needs is a little anti-regulation from the state, something that is unheard of from these neo-socialists.


Small businesses are failing precisely because of the failing economy. The recession kicks in when household saving desire goes up - and consequently, spending goes down. You can't defund & deregulate, and then blame it on government regulations for hindering "growth". That's just nonsense. The greatest years of economic happened when the tax rate for the top bracket was 90%. The problem is globalization itself. That capitalists can simply dodge the rules by going to other countries. A world tax system needs to be put in place that gives capitalists the option of either reinvesting their profits (recirculating the money) or forking up 90% of it to the government.

I disagree with the WS sales tax because it's not enough to tax speculation on margin - you need to get rid of it. It's simpler to issue asset side regulation for the banking sector, so that credit is directed only for consumer & business loans, NOT for speculation - like it is now, where the latter is the majority. Let people buy & sell stocks & financial derivatives with their own money. And thus, you do away with moral hazard & the parasites will no longer be able to keep people's deposits for ransom. You've made your bets with your own money or with a private agent's loan, and nobody will bail you out if the bet goes south.
If the Government commits to balancing the budget, that simply eliminates the flow of net financial assets from the Government toward the domestic private sector. The domestic private sector won't be able to deleverage. And what you'll get is even more foreclosures, bankruptcies, higher unemployment, higher poverty, and more needless social hardships & rise in extremism.
Just once I'd like to see an austrian integrate stock-flow consistent accounting in his views - and say, yes, Government needs to cut taxes & spending in these areas, but it needs to run appropriate fiscal deficits to ensure there's enough Aggregate Demand for the economy to run at full output.
And how about this for a change. Instead of emulating the practices of third world countries, why not force the governments of these countries to cease exploiting & underpaying their labor & to cease raping their environment? The race to the bottom helps nobody - it only helps the 1-percenters who already control the media, who own vast amounts of land, and who own corrupt politicians.
If you want your industries to go berserk & fill your air with smog like in China, then by all means, lobby to give chaos more freedom.

At any rate, I've spoken to people who know the MMT guys & gals around Sanders, and he refuses to incorporate MMT talking points in his campaign because he's afraid of "opening up a can of worms", whatever that means. If he refuses to make simple macro accounting statements to back up his budget plans/his programs, then every clueless git (so-called analyst) from bullshit magazines will be able to say - "Why Sanders' taxes won't raise enough revenue for tuition free education or what not. The left sold out 50 years ago, so I'm not getting my hopes up for anything or anyone.

And by the way, here's what Carl Menger, founder of the Austrian School of economics had to say about Government intervention.

Quote:
“Government thus has to intervene in economic life for the benefit of all not only to redress grievances, but also to establish enterprises that promote economic efforts but, because of their size, are beyond the means of individuals and even private corporations. These are not paternalistic measures to restrain the citizens’ activities; on the contrary, they furnish the means for promoting such activities; furthermore, they are of some importance for those great ends of the whole state that make it appear civilized and cultured.

Important roads, railways and canals that improve the general well-being by improving traffic and communication are special examples of this kind of enterprise and lasting evidence of the concern of the state for the well-being of its parts and thereby its own power; at the same time, they are/constitute major prerequisites for the prosperity of a modern state.

The building of schools, too, is a suitable field for government to prove its concern with the success of its citizens’ economic efforts.”
~Lectures to Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria, p. 121.


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This post was last modified: 18.03.2016 14:15 by Helsworth.

18.03.2016 12:51
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yangusbeef
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Post: #8
RE: Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why

Helsworth Wrote:

yangusbeef Wrote:
Money isn't being tickled down because of the exact over regulations that Bernie and Hillary are proposing. How about we stop this subsidies/corporate oligarchy nonsense and begin supporting small businesses that will bring about high money velocity. It is no coincidence that a high rate of small business failure coincides with a slowing economy! To clarify, taking money out the system and then throwing money at inefficient and ineffective government agents is not the answer. It is those programs that are sucking the life blood out of the economy just as much as those crooked top 1%ers. So, for now, commit to balancing the budget and restoring small business, the market will recover from there. All it needs is a little anti-regulation from the state, something that is unheard of from these neo-socialists.


Small businesses are failing precisely because of the failing economy. The recession kicks in when household saving desire goes up - and consequently, spending goes down. You can't defund & deregulate, and then blame it on government regulations for hindering "growth". That's just nonsense. The greatest years of economic happened when the tax rate for the top bracket was 90%. The problem is globalization itself. That capitalists can simply dodge the rules by going to other countries. A world tax system needs to be put in place that gives capitalists the option of either reinvesting their profits (recirculating the money) or forking up 90% of it to the government.

I disagree with the WS sales tax because it's not enough to tax speculation on margin - you need to get rid of it. It's simpler to issue asset side regulation for the banking sector, so that credit is directed only for consumer & business loans, NOT for speculation - like it is now, where the latter is the majority. Let people buy & sell stocks & financial derivatives with their own money. And thus, you do away with moral hazard & the parasites will no longer be able to keep people's deposits for ransom. You've made your bets with your own money or with a private agent's loan, and nobody will bail you out if the bet goes south.
If the Government commits to balancing the budget, that simply eliminates the flow of net financial assets from the Government toward the domestic private sector. The domestic private sector won't be able to deleverage. And what you'll get is even more foreclosures, bankruptcies, higher unemployment, higher poverty, and more needless social hardships & rise in extremism.
Just once I'd like to see an austrian integrate stock-flow consistent accounting in his views - and say, yes, Government needs to cut taxes & spending in these areas, but it needs to run appropriate fiscal deficits to ensure there's enough Aggregate Demand for the economy to run at full output.
And how about this for a change. Instead of emulating the practices of third world countries, why not force the governments of these countries to cease exploiting & underpaying their labor & to cease raping their environment? The race to the bottom helps nobody - it only helps the 1-percenters who already control the media, who own vast amounts of land, and who own corrupt politicians.
If you want your industries to go berserk & fill your air with smog like in China, then by all means, lobby to give chaos more freedom.

At any rate, I've spoken to people who know the MMT guys & gals around Sanders, and he refuses to incorporate MMT talking points in his campaign because he's afraid of "opening up a can of worms", whatever that means. If he refuses to make simple macro accounting statements to back up his budget plans/his programs, then every clueless git (so-called analyst) from bullshit magazines will be able to say - "Why Sanders' taxes won't raise enough revenue for tuition free education or what not. The left sold out 50 years ago, so I'm not getting my hopes up for anything or anyone.

And by the way, here's what Carl Menger, founder of the Austrian School of economics had to say about Government intervention.

Quote:
“Government thus has to intervene in economic life for the benefit of all not only to redress grievances, but also to establish enterprises that promote economic efforts but, because of their size, are beyond the means of individuals and even private corporations. These are not paternalistic measures to restrain the citizens’ activities; on the contrary, they furnish the means for promoting such activities; furthermore, they are of some importance for those great ends of the whole state that make it appear civilized and cultured.

Important roads, railways and canals that improve the general well-being by improving traffic and communication are special examples of this kind of enterprise and lasting evidence of the concern of the state for the well-being of its parts and thereby its own power; at the same time, they are/constitute major prerequisites for the prosperity of a modern state.

The building of schools, too, is a suitable field for government to prove its concern with the success of its citizens’ economic efforts.”
~Lectures to Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria, p. 121.

I am not arguing that government interference with the economy is bad. In some cases it is the best thing that can happen. What I am arguing is that national government interference in the economy is bad. If the economy in managed in such a broad manner, then it naturally becomes inefficient and the national government begins wasting money, much more so than rich oligarchs. The high tax rates and deficit is tying State's down. They cannot properly influence their economies due to a broad interference by the government. Anyways, I in majority agree with you. Austrian investment, or whatever you call it, is right to some extent. Investment into the economy through infrastructure and schooling is a crucial part of government interference, because otherwise it will be run at a profit, and many people will thus be alienated from the assets. There are some exceptions to this, but in a broad sense it is true. My point being, there are some things that the government has to be involved in, infrastructure, safety(police, law), and military, but in all other things it is either highly unnecessary or inefficient. The states will pick up education, health, and environment to some degree. They will also lead their own subsidies in key sectors, as well as their own welfare programs. These programs and regulations will be much more specialized to their circumstances, making for a better well being for the American people. In other words, the national government is inefficient and thus should stay out of several sectors. Finally, they were only able to have such a high corporate rate because the US had little to no international competition at that time, so they had little to worry about in regards to international competition. Thus, they opened unsustainable free trade and obscene tax rates to feed unsustainable programs and pay off the war debt. Overall, it was a temporary thing, and the world now is much different when compared to the world then.

18.03.2016 14:55
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