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MarcusAquila
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Post: #1
Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

As many have probably (at least hopefully) have heard by now, many American embassies have been violently attacked throughout the Middle East. On 11 Sept, both the Egyptian and Libyan embassies were attacked. The fact that both of these attacks took place at the same time in almost the same manner (under cover of a protest) and ended with the same flag (commonly associated with Al Qaeda and other jihadist groups) being flown over the embassy.

What I find sad and disturbing is that the PEOPLE did this, not governments/official terrorist groups. While they attacks may have been coordinated (as it is more probable than not) the murder of the American ambassador at the hands of a people that America had just freed from Qaddafi who they claimed was so evil. Yet, they find no trouble with murdering their allies (at least we thought we were).

Now Congress has almost no choice but to bow to public demand and slash the funding of these nations which will probably result in Egypt revoking its treaty with Israel (since it is controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood). And very much increased anti-American acts in the Middle East. The navy has issued the 4th Fleet to North African coast in readiness to respond to any further attacks. Hopefully, they will not need to be used.

Now some questions come up. Why did they do this? What benefit do they get or rather, who's benefiting from this sudden break in ties?

For the first question. I do not think for a second this has anything to do with the anti-Muhammad movie. Why? Do you see such protests in Pakistan? India? Bangladesh? Europe? Indonesia? Malaysia? Kazakhstan? No. So it obviously has little to nothing to do with Islam or Muhammad. I personally think that this was done by extremists to remind Americans of 9-11. Isn't it interesting that these attacks took place precisely on 9/11 and Islam has a very long history of symbolism with dates and locations (9-11 was chosen because that was the day the "west" defeated the Ottomans at Vienna, now they had "defeated" the west in NYC). From the standpoint of a jihadist, 9-11 would be a good day to launch attacks against Americans, and civilians too (remembering that it wasn't against America's military but citizens and cities that the first 9-11 attacks were launched).

For the second question, who's benefiting? Now that American influence in these nations has all but been extinguished (by blood or us leaving) these people are now at the influence of very powerful and very evil men (such as the Muslim Brotherhood). They have removed their single biggest threat to seizing power: America. Now, especially in the case of Libya, they have no real force to oppose them whereas before, America probably would have interceded had an Islamist group tried to bring Libya under their sway.


The hand of the aggressor is stayed by strength and strength alone.
Gen. Dwight Eisenhower

I am in earnest – I will not equivocate – I will not excuse – I will not retreat a single inch – AND I WILL BE HEARD.
William Lloyd Garrison
13.09.2012 21:32
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Globaltom
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Suedparadies
Post: #2
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

Well first it seems that the Arabik spring was maybee a reason,
countries like Lybia , Egypt lost their dictators who oppprest
revolts long, and bring up an more Islamik traditional
culture who was more sensitive in provokations ,
with a volk that was still in fighting mood.
Things like the film give a valve for the anger.

We can hope that there will be no massaker like
in the film "Rules of Engamgement."

Its not aso easy to say who is benefitting , cause its still running.

Maybee the fanatics in east or USA who get more attention they should have.
maybee the politics in the regions who have an valve for a volk that
still get nothing changed to good .
Maybee the winner of the next USA election ,
If Obama matched the ropedance he winn , if not maybee Romney
can provide of it.
Specially Obama was in tricky situation . If he can t save the embasies
he lost the hawks, if it came to an bloodbath he lost the doves.


Briefwähler

This post was last modified: 14.09.2012 17:33 by Globaltom.

13.09.2012 21:59
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Helsworth
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Post: #3
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

Define what's "America" and define what's "the people"? You think the average european considers the average american as his ally or vice-versa? Certainly not. The EU and the american government overthrew Gaddafi by supplying the rebel faction and providing air support (bombing, out of which many civilians were killed). The EU and the US did this for oil, not for human rights. Need I remind how good friends Berlusconi was with Gaddafi? Need I remind the friendship between the Bush family and saudis? France intervened swiftly before the US, out of geopolitical reasons. They wanted a bigger cut. They did not care that they were funding and putting into power extremists. Gaddafi was a dictator, but at least he was secular and provided some kind of stability not just in domestic affairs but for foreign commercial deals. Corruption never left libyan affairs.
This year's events on 9/11 benefits american hawkish policy. They'll say, "look, extremism and terrorism are still high, ergo don't even think about slashing the defense budget or intelligence budget, or repealing the Patriot Act, or the president's newly (illegal) acquired right to suspend habeas corpus at his own pleasure.
Yemen has been under London's sphere of influence for a long time, and still is. Their intelligence service is filled with mercenary agents, that serve oligarchic interests, just like how they served the East India Company with their opium smuggling that ultimately triggered the war with China, just like how they acted to sabotage american nationalists/protectionists policies, just like how they acted to suppress progressive and patriotic/revolutionary movements in their colonies, just like how they acted to secure and expand exploitation policies and genocides.
People are easily manipulated - with money, with a promise of gain, with lies... everything and anything can be staged. It was unfortunate that the american ambassador was killed, though I find no need to overdramatize it. A lot of people in Africa and the Middle East have died, because of invasion, warlords, western backed dictatorships and autochtonous dictatorships, and still die. I try to remember the days in which the US wasn't the stooge of british imperialism and neocolonialism. No radical fundamentalist movements had any bone to pick with the US.
By the way, did you hear the testimony of the 9/11 highjackers? It was kept out of the 9/11 commission report. The lies spun around by the corporate press about, that they hate american way of life, or hate that americans have freedom is all bullshit. Also, are you aware that the CIA gave the highjackers passports?
The violent revolts on this year's 9/11 win nothing for the people, but the trans-national corporate guys, like usual, stand to profit from the public's fear.
The western powers have maintained secular-military dictatorships in those countries for decades. No wonder that the fundamentalist factions have so much popular support. Because the common folk are tired of poverty and are tired of living under western backed dictators. Thus, because of their poor living standard and ignorance, they turn to religion. Fascism, national socialism and communism would have never became popular anywhere in the world, if the people were living decent lives. The victorious empires of WW1 sowed the seeds of WW2, and they reaped much suffering and death from those seeds. Watch any documentary on the living conditions in Weimar Germany. You'll be appalled.


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This post was last modified: 13.09.2012 22:49 by Helsworth.

13.09.2012 22:39
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Globaltom
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Suedparadies
Post: #4
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

Why are you posting in German Part and not here Noplan


Briefwähler
15.09.2012 19:38
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albiceleste101
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Post: #5
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

First of all, it wasn't only in Middle East but in many muslim countries like Bangladesh and Philippines. Just for you to know, they did this because of a video in which Islam, and Mahoma the prophet was strongly insulted.
Well, second.. USA didn't free ANY country. Gadafi, although he was a dictator and had his issues, was better than NATO that only caused thousands of dead people only for oil (same sad repetitive story).
And finally third, i think the muslims not only felt very offended but some took the video as an excuse to attack the occidental embassies.


In short, if you dont want to read:
_NATO creating conflict around the globe
_Muslims taking advantage/revenge of a video and past events

I understand this actions as a way to keep the power. I am against USA and any imperialist country, but i don't hate them because they do what's necessary and many others would do the same in their position.

I hope you didn't take may opinion personal or offensive, I'm an argentine atheist so there's a lot of people that could hate me :)
The world need progress, respect and reason!

15.09.2012 22:15
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Helsworth
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Post: #6
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

Globaltom Wrote:
Why are you posting in German Part and not here Noplan

I replied there, because I saw the opinions of others and wanted to give my two cents. Sue me.


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15.09.2012 22:57
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MarcusAquila
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Post: #7
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

Quote:
they did this because of a video in which Islam, and Mahoma the prophet was strongly insulted.


That still is a very poor excuse to act like a bunch of apes. lol we tell people to stop acting like children, now its stop acting like an arab!

Quote:
USA didn't free ANY country.


technically, the US did not free Libya but it did provide very important resources such as air-power, supplies, intelligence, and weapons. It is doubtful the rebels could have defeated Qadaffi's airforce. Also, you do know it was Rebels who started the war and who ended it. Qadaffi was killed by rebels, not Americans or NATO. Libya is under a new government, not a NATO one. Do you think George Washington was a French pawn just because France (and Spain and the Dutch) aided the colonists in defeating the British? Of course not.

Quote:
I hope you didn't take may opinion personal or offensive


There is no need to worry about offending someone unless you either A, actually mean to or B, use personal insults (such as you big idiot go die in a hole!). However, the reasons you provided are just unsustainable and fail at consistency.

Also, one piece of advice, next time put the "in short" section first Smile


The hand of the aggressor is stayed by strength and strength alone.
Gen. Dwight Eisenhower

I am in earnest – I will not equivocate – I will not excuse – I will not retreat a single inch – AND I WILL BE HEARD.
William Lloyd Garrison
15.09.2012 22:59
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Helsworth
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Post: #8
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

MarcusAquila Wrote:

Quote:
they did this because of a video in which Islam, and Mahoma the prophet was strongly insulted.


That still is a very poor excuse to act like a bunch of apes. lol we tell people to stop acting like children, now its stop acting like an arab!

Quote:
USA didn't free ANY country.


technically, the US did not free Libya but it did provide very important resources such as air-power, supplies, intelligence, and weapons. It is doubtful the rebels could have defeated Qadaffi's airforce. Also, you do know it was Rebels who started the war and who ended it. Qadaffi was killed by rebels, not Americans or NATO. Libya is under a new government, not a NATO one. Do you think George Washington was a French pawn just because France (and Spain and the Dutch) aided the colonists in defeating the British? Of course not.

Quote:
I hope you didn't take may opinion personal or offensive


There is no need to worry about offending someone unless you either A, actually mean to or B, use personal insults (such as you big idiot go die in a hole!). However, the reasons you provided are just unsustainable and fail at consistency.

Also, one piece of advice, next time put the "in short" section first Smile

If the NATO bombs instead of killing Gaddafi, they killed civilians and children. The NATO strikes also killed Gaddafi's son and three grandchildren.
As for "stop acting like an arab," that's pure racism. Not all of the arabs and followers of Islam behaved violently. Arabs around the world did not kill the US ambassador. Many arabs stood at home, many of them went out to protest against that movie, the large majority of arabs and followers of Islam did not protest in the street, nor with violence. Get your facts straight. Also don't bring the issue at hand in derision by comparing salt with sugar. The US colonies vs the British empire cannot be compared with NATO and Libya. Your logic fails completely compared to that of albiceleste101.


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15.09.2012 23:20
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MarcusAquila
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Post: #9
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

Quote:
If the NATO bombs instead of killing Gaddafi, they killed civilians and children. The NATO strikes also killed Gaddafi's son and three grandchildren.


Sadly, such is the reality of war. Good to note, the US didn't actually drop bombs for the sole purpose of killing civilians, unlike Libyan government soldiers. Also, the Libyan people asked for those airstrikes that saved thousands more lives from Gaddafi who INDISCRIMINATELY attacked. At least the US didn't target schools, hospitals, and civilians. Gaddafi did. Also, Gaddafi's sons were just as guilty as he was, they just didn't hold the title dictator.


Quote:
As for "stop acting like an arab," that's pure racism

Really? So maybe we shouldn't say "stop acting like children" because that's age discrimination.

Quote:
Not all of the arabs and followers of Islam behaved violently.

Please name one Arabic nation that has not attacked an embassy? An embassy!!!!!! Of course not all Arabs or Muslims want jihad but many of them do and many others support them. Actually, almost all Arabs support jihad because THEY DO NOTHING TO STOP IT. While not all Arabs killed the ambassador and his aides, it was perpetuated by extremest Islamist group(s). Government or terrorist, these nations/groups do not care about Geneva Conventions or have any sensibilities in regard to innocents because in their eyes, there are none. Just look at Syria. They purposefully bomb towns. Iran still jails people from different religions and then executes them. Afghans destroyed historical and religious sites.

Quote:
Your logic fails completely


Doesn't it always Rolleyes


The hand of the aggressor is stayed by strength and strength alone.
Gen. Dwight Eisenhower

I am in earnest – I will not equivocate – I will not excuse – I will not retreat a single inch – AND I WILL BE HEARD.
William Lloyd Garrison
16.09.2012 00:57
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albiceleste101
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Post: #10
RE: Assaults on American Embassies/Comsulates

MarcusAquila Wrote:

Quote:
they did this because of a video in which Islam, and Mahoma the prophet was strongly insulted.


That still is a very poor excuse to act like a bunch of apes. lol we tell people to stop acting like children, now its stop acting like an arab!

Quote:
USA didn't free ANY country.


technically, the US did not free Libya but it did provide very important resources such as air-power, supplies, intelligence, and weapons. It is doubtful the rebels could have defeated Qadaffi's airforce. Also, you do know it was Rebels who started the war and who ended it. Qadaffi was killed by rebels, not Americans or NATO. Libya is under a new government, not a NATO one. Do you think George Washington was a French pawn just because France (and Spain and the Dutch) aided the colonists in defeating the British? Of course not.

Quote:
I hope you didn't take may opinion personal or offensive


There is no need to worry about offending someone unless you either A, actually mean to or B, use personal insults (such as you big idiot go die in a hole!). However, the reasons you provided are just unsustainable and fail at consistency.

Also, one piece of advice, next time put the "in short" section first Smile




I have just two things to say, NATO support rebels that, acting alone, couldn't kill Gadafi a person that created jobs, houses and improved education and relations with with other african countries and he also helped them.
Lybia started not to sell their oil in american dollars...
I wouldn't like to argue this kind of things with someone that have a Tatcher image on his profile xD

Btw.. USA does this stuff all the time, like in Afganistan and now Siria, so it's nothing new. Hopefully the next super power don't do the same

16.09.2012 04:26
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