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CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

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RichardAWilson
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Post: #11
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

Nothing much besides being busy as hell Lol

No, it wasnt a joke either.UK had longest economic expansion on record, NHS was better funded, both in absolute terms and relative to national income, than ever before and massive investments were made in education and science. Crime fell to modern low. London reclaimed status as a global city and center for commerce and trade and culture. Poverty fell to an all time low due to expansion of tax credits for working poor and the introduction of the first ever national minimum wage. So, no, I wasn't joking. The record speaks for itself. Same for Bill Clinton here in U.S., Ehud Barak on Israel and Gerhard Schroder in Germany

02.03.2014 19:56
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Helsworth
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Post: #12
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

RichardAWilson Wrote:
UK had longest economic expansion on record, NHS was better funded, both in absolute terms and relative to national income, than ever before and massive investments were made in education and science. Crime fell to modern low. London reclaimed status as a global city and center for commerce and trade and culture. Poverty fell to an all time low due to expansion of tax credits for working poor and the introduction of the first ever national minimum wage. So, no, I wasn't joking. The record speaks for itself. Same for Bill Clinton here in U.S., Ehud Barak on Israel and Gerhard Schroder in Germany

Lol, you're aware that Clinton's surpluses caused the recession are you not? You're aware of Blair's aport to Bush's illegal warfare? Blair left policy affairs to Gordon Brown. A strong world economy, rising immigration and public spending helped to boost UK growth (the bubble in the eurozone) - though steady it was unspectacular. So yeah, I don't see the politicians who have went on the Great Moderation's wave as "examples to follow" or "great dudes".


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This post was last modified: 02.03.2014 20:04 by Helsworth.

02.03.2014 20:03
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BaktoMakhno
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Post: #13
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

Helsworth Wrote:
The labor theory of value cannot be attributed solely to Marx. Smith and Ricardo used it also. Hell, even Aquinas thought of it, as well as Ibn Khaldun.

For sure. But if we want to make Marxism sensible or useful the LTV has to be removed.

Richard, the Blair years were consistent attacks on the bargaining power of the working class. The average time people spend working shot up. He added all sorts of humiliating obligations and restrictions to unemployment benefits. He weakened the unions. He may have given schools more money, but added even more standardized testing to bully and brutalise students. Yes NHS funding increased, but he was instrumental in how the private sector termites have burrowed their way into it. And don't get me started about how he lied +twice+ to take the country into murderous, criminal wars.

http://www.bigissue.com/features/intervi...tony-blair


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02.03.2014 20:06
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RichardAWilson
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Post: #14
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

Well, the crash of the tech bubble caused the recession. The stock crash caused almost as much wealth to disappear as the housing crash did. It's just that the housing crash was more broad based and affected more people and the real economy more than the stock crash did. Clinton surpluses contributed to the recession. However, those surpluses were also, by and large, the byproduct of the tech bubble itself. Cause of recession was still tech bubble.

Blair's one mistake was Iraq War. He was good for the home team though and he knew how to pick advisors and ministers. Team Brown Smile

02.03.2014 20:10
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Helsworth
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Post: #15
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

Fo real, as Ali G would put it. Here's the sectoral balance of the UK from '87 to '09.
http://www.3spoken.co.uk/2011/02/uk-sect...ances.html

You can see how the UK's private sector's balance suffered under his cabinet (1997-2007).

RichardAWilson Wrote:
Well, the crash of the tech bubble caused the recession. The stock crash caused almost as much wealth to disappear as the housing crash did. It's just that the housing crash was more broad based and affected more people and the real economy more than the stock crash did. Clinton surpluses contributed to the recession. However, those surpluses were also, by and large, the byproduct of the tech bubble itself. Cause of recession was still tech bubble.

Ok, what do fiscal surpluses do? They erode savings previously accumulated by the non-government sector. Fiscal deficits and fiscal surpluses are vertical transactions. (S-I)+(G-T)+(X-M)=0
The former creates net assets, the latter destroys net assets. When the private sector desires to save more than it spends, then you have a recession. Too much private credit creation begins to have negative impact on aggregate demand. When at first it adds to aggregate demand by increasing sales - ultimately, private debt induced growth is always unsustainable. For monetary policy (lending) doesn't create new net assets. Money is endogenous.


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This post was last modified: 02.03.2014 20:17 by Helsworth.

02.03.2014 20:11
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RichardAWilson
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Post: #16
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

Poverty also fell to historic low because of first national minimum wage and the increases to tax credits for working poor. Public sector wages also soared under Blair and Brown. Yes, some painful reforms were adopted. Some of them had to be. Look at Greece or Ireland before their reforms. You had people collecting dole because they were simply too lazy to work. That's well recorded for Ireland and Ireland became Europe's Sick Man because of it. Blair and Brown struck an even balance between runaway socialism and laissez faire every man for himself capitalism. It was a balance that delivered economic growth and competition in a manner that ensured all boats were lifted. Yes, rich did better than poor and the wealth gap did widen. However, poverty fell to a historic low and real wages for all income groups did rise. You're still better off if you're doing better in absolute terms even if you're doing worse in relative terms.
Fiscal surpluses don't disappear off face of the earth either. Those surpluses are used to pay down public debts which, in turn, compensate bond holders who, in turn, use the money to save or invest elsewhere. Interest rates then fall because more capital is available to the private sector. The problem was that the surpluses were too large and there wasnt enough meaningful private sector demand for increased credit availability. The tech bubble crashed and the surplus dragged the economy down because no one was borrowing in the private sector. The surplus made the recession worse and maybe recession would have been avoided if the Clinton surpluses had been used for infrastructure as that would have cushioned the economy from the crash.

02.03.2014 20:17
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Helsworth
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Post: #17
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

Sorry, bro. The problems of Greece and Ireland weren't the governments. Their banks were the problems. I don't have to tell you that every net exporter of goods and services is a net importer of aggregate demand. The problem with the EZ is that it's arbitrary financial architecture was not meant to handle aggregate demand shocks. And there is no surplus recycling mechanism is place inside the EZ. It's all at the mercy/whim of the surplus countries, and the periphery have almost no say in the matter.
It's NATURAL for government deficits to expand during a recession because the automatic stabilizers are trying to do their thing. It's the system trying to correct iself. But you tell me how this can happen, when the citizens and firms are forced-fed austerity, so that the eurocrats may give money to the banks with the promise of socializing the debt; and letting the banks pocket the profits.
You tell me how member governments are supposed to guarantee euro-bank deposits, when they themselves are euro users not euro issuers. You tell me how you can have greek, irish, french, german et all banks in a single currency union? They should all be european banks. And the ECB should guarantee euro-deposits, NOT the member states.
How long would have New York lasted if the state of NYC was guaranteeing the bank deposits during the crisis of '07? And not the Federal gov via the FDIC. A minute or two, in my opinion. And everything would have shut down.

Also, permanent and involuntary unemployment is a macroeconomic phenomenon, a government policy choice. It's not happening because of "lazy people" on welfare.
Alright, Richard. I need to stop you there, cause you're assumptions of how things work don't stand in a modern free floating nonconvertible fiat system.

Please take a course in Chartalism, or Modern Monetary Theory. And you'll understand that government taxation DOES NOT finance public spending. That issuing public debt serves several functions, but "financing" public spending is NOT one of them. Time for you to stop being a deficit dove, and start being a deficit owl. Wink


The deal in short


Modern money and public purpose 1: historical evolution of debt


Modern money and public purpose 2: Governments are not households


Modern money and public purpose 3: The eurozone


Modern money and public purpose 4: The real vs nominal economy


Fiscal vs monetary policy (skip over the first speaker because of bad audio


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This post was last modified: 02.03.2014 20:39 by Helsworth.

02.03.2014 20:25
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BaktoMakhno
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Post: #18
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

RichardAWilson Wrote:
You had people collecting dole because they were simply too dignified and had too much self respect to work.

Fixed that for you.

The wages system is a racket. As Helsworth pointed out unemployment is deliberately maintained by government policy. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAIRU

The Blair government believed in that. They consciously worked to keep unemployment up. And then they painted unemployed people as lazy scroungers, bullied and humiliated them. Unemployment is kept up so the labour market is a buyers market. Which means employers can treat employees like shit. The more the government bullies the unemployed the more working people fear losing their jobs so the more scared they will be of management. These sadistic policies harm the entire working class, not just the unemployed.

When people decide that they care more about their dignity than money, refuse to work and go on the dole we should applaud them. They aren't hurting anyone. Those who strive and try, who desperately look for work and surrender their dignity in doing so demean not only themselves but all the working people who are forced to compete with them. Taking a job which compromises your dignity is like crossing a picket line.

When people are free to live comfortably on benefits without lifting a finger, without any obligations and without any stigma, then firms must compete with this. Firms can no longer bully their employees. Employees no longer need live in fear of the sack. And if firms want to attract workers they have to offer something which actually enhances the workers lives. Within the capitalist paradigm, cushy benefits are the easiest route to dignified lives and work for everyone - not just the people on benefits.

In refusing work and choosing benefits people take a stand for the dignity of all of us - whether they realize it or not. We should applaud them for their courage and heroism.


The human cost of Blairs assault on unemployment benefits can be seen in longer working hours and worsening mental health statistics.

Also, the fucker privatized the railways. Fares are now twice what they were when he did this.


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"There is no conversation more boring than one where Globaltom speaks" - Triniterias

This post was last modified: 03.03.2014 17:45 by BaktoMakhno.

03.03.2014 13:19
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Helsworth
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Post: #19
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS


George Carlin, while not being an economist, understood so well the purpose of the NAIRU.


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03.03.2014 14:44
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shekelsgold
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Post: #20
RE: CONFESSIONS OF AN ERRATIC MARXIST IN THE MIDST OF A REPUGNANT EUROPEAN CRISIS

being communist in the modern age, lol.

You can look at any Communist country, they're almost always shitholes or they fall.

See: USSR and NK.

You have zero rights, you own nothing, you're forced into collectivism, you have zero motivation to actually be good at your job since you're given the same share as everyone else, it has killed 85 million people, it tells you to replace every single government with a commie country, and its almost always tyranny, it advocates equality and the "Will of the people" yet the people have no say. Capitalism gives you motivation to work harder, to get bonuses, to get that nice car, that new computer, new watch etc. etc. Even if it's vanity, it's freedom.

I didn't bother reading all of that, but come on man. Would you rather be forced to be poor or given the chance to have it all?


Capitalism ftw.
18.03.2014 01:29
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