Post Reply  Post Thread 
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »

Destroying Laize-Fair

Author Message
Killer300
Unregistered


Post: #1
Destroying Laize-Fair

This thread is necessary again I see, and this time hopefully it will work out. Once again, this isn't against capitalism in its whole, but against laize-fair, which actually isn't even technically possible because such a government would still intervene in the economy for military spending, police spending, and the necessity for some kind of tax to fund all of that.

Now, to get the ball rolling, a fundmental problem with capitalism is what I like to call the Cutting Cycle. We experienced it with the recent recession, it caused the Great Depression to become a depression instead of just a recession because of it acclerating it, and it's the origin of said recessions in many ways in the first place.
To quote Proudon, who despite a few mistakes is a great source, "But Industry, under the influence of property, does not proceed with such regularity ... As soon as a demand begins to be felt, the factories fill up, and everybody goes to work. Then business is lively ... Under the rule of property, the flowers of industry are woven into none but funeral wreaths. The labourer digs his own grave ...[the capitalist] tries ... to continue production by lessoning expenses. Then comes the lowering of wages; the introduction of machinery,; the employment of women and children ... the decreased cost creates a larger market ...[but] the productive power tends to more than ever outstrip consumption ... To-day the factory is closed. Tomorrow the people starve in the streets ... In consequence of the cessation of bussiness and the extreme cheapness of merchandise ... frightened creditors hasten to withdraw their funds [and] Production is suspended, and labour comes to a standstill." What is Property, pp 191-192"

This is basically what happened in the Great Depression. The cycle started with Black Tuesday, and then spiraled out of control as the people lost jobs and couldn't spend. The mechnaization had happened in the 1920s, along with one of the weakest periods for labor and strongest for capital which is a bad sign, not a good one.

Now, I'm not done, however I'll let things sink in with this one. This is going to take a really long time I see, however it's time I tried again. Again, I'm not attacking capitalism, just so called laize-fair, and with it, every market fundmentalist out there.

22.03.2011 00:01
Quote this message in a reply
Bubboleth
Member
*


Posts: 205
Words count: 43,185
Group: Basic
Joined: Mar2011
Status: Offline
Reputation: 5
Experience: 101
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #2
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

Do you understand that under the Free Market, the government is expected to enforce contracts and the basic ability of people to trade?

Can you cite a source for the government cutting expenditures in the Depression? As far as I remember, both Hoover and FDR increased expenditures.

22.03.2011 00:36
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
VincentNikolai
Independent
*


Posts: 1,414
Words count: 367,394
Group: Basic
Joined: Apr2010
Status: Offline
Reputation: 26
Experience: 178
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #3
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

Killer's what you're against is Liberalism. Laisze-faire capitalism is the core idea behind Liberalism, but your direct opposition is to Liberalism.

Hoover increased cash flow. FDR is who made the real budget movements. Hoover was too scared to do that, which ultimately led to his political demise and our economic stagnation/depression.


Politics has no relation to morals.
The Prince, Niccolo Machiavelli
The Prince- A dedication and political maneuver by Niccolo Machiavelli to prove his advice's value to the maintenance of the ruling Florentine Medici Political force.

This post was last modified: 22.03.2011 00:45 by VincentNikolai.

22.03.2011 00:44
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Killer300
Unregistered


Post: #4
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

I actually know that, sorry if this statement is offensive because it sounds sarcastic, because I'm not trying to be, seriously.Liberalism and Neo-Liberalism with that. Liberals in America are far different than the original liberals, as are libertarians in America which are a curious opposite for abroad the definitions are almost a perfect reverse.
But anyway, I'll wait for this thread to, "cook," some in a sense before commenting again.

But anyway to answer that, Hoover did increase expenditure, but in stupid ways. His responses were to first ignore the depression, than to try to get business leaders to not fire people on goodwill, which is stupid from both a socialist and capitalist perspective, and finally, he used a tariff when people couldn't even afford American goods. Over all, that was a complete failure. FDR used the New Deal, one of the best economic programs in American history, did allievete it enough for World War 2 to finish the job of recovery.

22.03.2011 00:48
Quote this message in a reply
RichardAWilson
Posting Freak
*


Posts: 853
Words count: 84,143
Group: Basic
Joined: May2010
Status: Offline
Reputation: 15
Experience: 207
Glory Points: 210
Medals: 12

Post: #5
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

The causes of the Great-Depression were: the Federal Reserve, which raised interest-rates during a period of consumer price deflation, thus triggering foreclosures and financial instabilities, the infamous Revenue Act of 1932, which more than doubled the effective tax burden on businesses and middle-class Americans, and the even more harmful protectionism that was initiated by Hoover and the Republicans. Had it not been for protectionism, higher taxes and higher interest rates, the economy would have recovered and the “depression” would have been just another recession. Don’t blame businesses and capitalism for the failures of the State.

This post was last modified: 22.03.2011 01:02 by RichardAWilson.

22.03.2011 00:58
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Killer300
Unregistered


Post: #6
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

Umm, Protectionism was essential to the founding of American Industry, otherwise British industries would've crushed ours like paste. In the 1930s, yes it was worthless. Hoover was useless in that regard, I agree with that.

22.03.2011 01:01
Quote this message in a reply
RichardAWilson
Posting Freak
*


Posts: 853
Words count: 84,143
Group: Basic
Joined: May2010
Status: Offline
Reputation: 15
Experience: 207
Glory Points: 210
Medals: 12

Post: #7
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

Hoover’s protectionism caused a reaction from foreign-countries, thus crushing our manufacturing sector and harming our farmers. The collapse of international trade, resulting from our protectionism, caused a crisis in the financial-sector, as trade is often financed and insured by banks and financial institutions.

This post was last modified: 22.03.2011 01:08 by RichardAWilson.

22.03.2011 01:05
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Killer300
Unregistered


Post: #8
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

Dude, I agree with you during the 1930s, that tariff was incredibly stupid. I'm just talking about the beginning of America. Okay, calm down. Take it easy, I'm here with you on that.

22.03.2011 01:12
Quote this message in a reply
Anthonie
Junior Member
*


Posts: 11
Words count: 826
Group: Basic
Joined: Dec2010
Status: Offline
Reputation: 0
Experience: 0
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #9
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

I think government expenditures and other necessary red taps should be avoided in order to stabilize the economy in the financial crisis. But this has been our practice as the government divert its attention towards the more taxation over the general public rather than cutting their expenses.

29.03.2011 05:56
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Lord Weasel
Great Heavenly Supreme Eater of Rabbits
*


Posts: 731
Words count: 66,104
Group: Basic
Joined: Oct2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 25
Experience: 103889
Glory Points: 30
Medals: 2

Post: #10
RE: Destroying Laize-Fair

The best single example of the failings of lassaiz fair I can thin of is the Irish potato famine. The potato was affected by a disease killing the crop for a few years, and as the Irish were reliant on it for there main source of animal fodder and food they died in their thousands. The British government chose not to intervene as if they were to ship grain to Ireland it would affect the market price of grain and be an interventionist policy.

this lead to mass emigration and starvation, but at least the profit margins of the rich grain producers in England were unaffected.

Hoe can a system that would allow such a thing to happen be allowed to exist.

29.03.2011 20:50
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »
Post Reply  Post Thread 

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Destroying Equiblruim Theory Killer300 74 16,750 10.01.2011 04:10
Last Post: VincentNikolai
  Capitalism and fair and free trade Jakerp 5 1,963 25.06.2010 17:15
Last Post: mrh112

View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this Thread | Add Thread to Favorites

Forum Jump: