Post Reply  Post Thread 
Pages (2): « First < Previous 1 [2] Last »

Economic Blog

Author Message
Ajay Alcos
Unregistered


Post: #11
RE: Economic Blog

yangusbeef Wrote:
Sounds great, that should boom the illegal narcotics industry. More consumers and less risk for said consumers.


I would not assume upon results when empirical data from other parts of the world state otherwise. One should take illicit narcotics for what they are - drugs. Unlike say certain addictive (yet legal) forms of narcotics which one can easily get from a local pharmacy or servo, illegal drugs are not as commercially available and demand for such products are sated by underground criminal syndicates who naturally supply to whatever demand there is for illicit materials. Deterring drug-users through simply utilising the apparatus of law enforcement has been shown in many countries in South-East Asia, India, Africa as well as in the West to be ineffective for solving the wider issue of drug addiction.

Of course one could simply refocus law enforcement resources towards cutting supply but that alone doesn't solve the issue of demand. In the past it was assumed that focusing on removing supply of illicit narcotics from the equation would be enough to eventually wither away demand. Naturally one would need simply look out the window to see that that presumption was inherently flawed. Punishing drug-users with severe jail sentences is therefore simply ineffective at deterring drug use. Rather whilst law enforcement is focussed towards prosecuting the suppliers of illicit narcotics; it is far more prudent for drug-users and drug addiction to be reclassified as a health issue rather than a criminal one.

That isn't to say that there shouldn't be some form of legal penalties for illegal drug-use. On the contrary such penalties should, as I have stated previously - be reduced to fines and community service which coincide with obligatory rehabilitation programs. I must say however that I have serious doubts as to whether America's healthcare system has the structural capacity or the resources to actually deal with this issue considering it is lacking a system of universal healthcare, along with the fact that public provisions for the healthcare system are more decentralised say compared to Australia or Canada.

Then again, I wouldn't surprised if Donald Trump instead tries to solve the issue by taking a page out of Papa Duterte's play-book and decide to go on a rampage; subjecting drug-users to brutal vigilante lynchings just like in my motherland. Nonetheless my point stands that simply cutting the head from the hydra is simply going to lead to another spouting out nowhere. And so long as the issue of demand isn't in some way addressed via rehabilitation and wider use of the healthcare system - the streets of Chicago, Baltimore and Detroit will remain littered with needles.

31.03.2017 01:47
Quote this message in a reply
yangusbeef
Unregistered


Post: #12
RE: Economic Blog

I agree, the solution, it seems to me, is to legalize all drugs. This would flood the market with cheap drugs, destroying the cartels via supply-side economics. The increase in drug use would produce more private rehabilitation centers, decreasing the cost and rising quality incredibly. I agree that the state has failed, and any solution of the state to end in a "desirable end" would be tyrannical mass-murder. Government cannot carry out the goal of this society effectively or peacefully. It is time to remove them and take the country in a new direction.

01.04.2017 14:03
Quote this message in a reply
Ajay Alcos
Unregistered


Post: #13
RE: Economic Blog

yangusbeef Wrote:
I agree, the solution, it seems to me, is to legalize all drugs. This would flood the market with cheap drugs, destroying the cartels via supply-side economics. The increase in drug use would produce more private rehabilitation centers, decreasing the cost and rising quality incredibly. I agree that the state has failed, and any solution of the state to end in a "desirable end" would be tyrannical mass-murder. Government cannot carry out the goal of this society effectively or peacefully. It is time to remove them and take the country in a new direction.


I don't even.

02.04.2017 11:09
Quote this message in a reply
yangusbeef
Unregistered


Post: #14
RE: Economic Blog

Ajay Alcos Wrote:

yangusbeef Wrote:
I agree, the solution, it seems to me, is to legalize all drugs. This would flood the market with cheap drugs, destroying the cartels via supply-side economics. The increase in drug use would produce more private rehabilitation centers, decreasing the cost and rising quality incredibly. I agree that the state has failed, and any solution of the state to end in a "desirable end" would be tyrannical mass-murder. Government cannot carry out the goal of this society effectively or peacefully. It is time to remove them and take the country in a new direction.


I don't even.


Lachweg
Drugs are never going away, no matter how much money is thrown at the problem. Although drugs destroy a country, we have seen in the past such bans simply do not work. In fact, they make the problem worse, as now people must spend more of their physical capital on the destructive practice, in some cases going broke over it. And having to do it in secret seems to promote abuse. Moreover, it leads to tyrannical actions by the government, which may lead to mass-murder of drug dealers, addicts, or both. Is that an adequate explanation?

02.04.2017 20:00
Quote this message in a reply
Ajay Alcos
Unregistered


Post: #15
RE: Economic Blog

yangusbeef Wrote:
I agree, the solution, it seems to me, is to legalize all drugs. This would flood the market with cheap drugs, destroying the cartels via supply-side economics. The increase in drug use would produce more private rehabilitation centers, decreasing the cost and rising quality incredibly. I agree that the state has failed, and any solution of the state to end in a "desirable end" would be tyrannical mass-murder. Government cannot carry out the goal of this society effectively or peacefully. It is time to remove them and take the country in a new direction.

---

Lachweg
Drugs are never going away, no matter how much money is thrown at the problem. Although drugs destroy a country, we have seen in the past such bans simply do not work. In fact, they make the problem worse, as now people must spend more of their physical capital on the destructive practice, in some cases going broke over it. And having to do it in secret seems to promote abuse. Moreover, it leads to tyrannical actions by the government, which may lead to mass-murder of drug dealers, addicts, or both. Is that an adequate explanation?


I have to disagree. There is no solution to eradicating illicit drug use. Even if one were to go about causing every single natural component for the creation of such substances to become extinct, it would only cause other people to find other ways of getting a high. That may involve sniffing shoe-glue or even downing pints of mouth-wash to replicate effects of moonshine. Rehabilitation centres alone whether they be supported by the private or public sector would not be enough to actually tackle let alone reverse any increase in drug-use.

My previous bewilderness I must elaborate comes from your notion that:

yangusbeef Wrote:
"I agree that the state has failed, and any solution of the state to end in a "desirable end" would be tyrannical mass-murder."


That would be correct if one were to only include countries such as the United States and the Philippines but rather narrow since it doesn't include the efforts and results of initiatives aimed at managing drug-use as performed by the authorities of other nations, notably Portugal, Australia and even Indonesia. Wholesale legalisation on the other-hand is something to be avoided. It should however be implemented gradually and incrementally not arbitrarily. Society as whole has to accommodate and make preparations to cater for new developments, and so simply making something legal on-the-fly would be akin to catching everyone with their pants down.

As to a reasonably effective way of reducing the use of certain substances, I'd like to point out Australia.

Ever since the 1950's there has been a growing endeavour amongst individuals in outlining and spreading knowledge of the damaging effects of smoking; with or without the support of the state (which in retrospect usually meant the latter). In the 1990's however, the Australian government implemented a tobacco excise as way to provide an economic disincentive for smokers to discontinue their habit. The proceeds of the excise however were spent entirely on the healthcare system as well as other initiatives aimed at reducing tobacco use, including greater universal healthcare coverage for smokers looking to quit and spreading awareness via advertisements and education.

In 2010 that tax was hiked dramatically by the Labor (stupid Americanised spelling) government and has continued to be hiked even with the current Liberal (neo-conservatives masquerading as liberals) government. Further in 2012 Australia became the first country to introduce plain packaging laws which basically prohibited all forms of branding logos, colours, and promotional texts whether be on a billboard, poster or even the packets themselves. Basically it made every box of cigarettes look like this (You can read up more about it here). This has had the effect of reducing the amount of smokers in Australia since 1989/1990 by 23%. More importantly it has basically stymied the amount of new smokers taking up the habit to the low digits.

So really combating and reducing drug-use requires the cooperation and engagement of the wider fabric of society - from the Government, the private-sector but most importantly the individual. But just importantly it is something that must combated using various other means whether they be educational, financial or economic and not just through the use of law enforcement. Any lone initiative whether they be taken up by the authorities or even a well-meaning private foundation can only be expected to fall flat. Hence it is rather more important to focus on all aspects and not just focus on a single one.

03.04.2017 11:28
Quote this message in a reply
yangusbeef
Unregistered


Post: #16
RE: Economic Blog

Ajay Alcos Wrote:

yangusbeef Wrote:
I agree, the solution, it seems to me, is to legalize all drugs. This would flood the market with cheap drugs, destroying the cartels via supply-side economics. The increase in drug use would produce more private rehabilitation centers, decreasing the cost and rising quality incredibly. I agree that the state has failed, and any solution of the state to end in a "desirable end" would be tyrannical mass-murder. Government cannot carry out the goal of this society effectively or peacefully. It is time to remove them and take the country in a new direction.

---

Lachweg
Drugs are never going away, no matter how much money is thrown at the problem. Although drugs destroy a country, we have seen in the past such bans simply do not work. In fact, they make the problem worse, as now people must spend more of their physical capital on the destructive practice, in some cases going broke over it. And having to do it in secret seems to promote abuse. Moreover, it leads to tyrannical actions by the government, which may lead to mass-murder of drug dealers, addicts, or both. Is that an adequate explanation?


I have to disagree. There is no solution to eradicating illicit drug use. Even if one were to go about causing every single natural component for the creation of such substances to become extinct, it would only cause other people to find other ways of getting a high. That may involve sniffing shoe-glue or even downing pints of mouth-wash to replicate effects of moonshine. Rehabilitation centres alone whether they be supported by the private or public sector would not be enough to actually tackle let alone reverse any increase in drug-use.

My previous bewilderness I must elaborate comes from your notion that:

yangusbeef Wrote:
"I agree that the state has failed, and any solution of the state to end in a "desirable end" would be tyrannical mass-murder."


That would be correct if one were to only include countries such as the United States and the Philippines but rather narrow since it doesn't include the efforts and results of initiatives aimed at managing drug-use as performed by the authorities of other nations, notably Portugal, Australia and even Indonesia. Wholesale legalisation on the other-hand is something to be avoided. It should however be implemented gradually and incrementally not arbitrarily. Society as whole has to accommodate and make preparations to cater for new developments, and so simply making something legal on-the-fly would be akin to catching everyone with their pants down.

As to a reasonably effective way of reducing the use of certain substances, I'd like to point out Australia.

Ever since the 1950's there has been a growing endeavour amongst individuals in outlining and spreading knowledge of the damaging effects of smoking; with or without the support of the state (which in retrospect usually meant the latter). In the 1990's however, the Australian government implemented a tobacco excise as way to provide an economic disincentive for smokers to discontinue their habit. The proceeds of the excise however were spent entirely on the healthcare system as well as other initiatives aimed at reducing tobacco use, including greater universal healthcare coverage for smokers looking to quit and spreading awareness via advertisements and education.

In 2010 that tax was hiked dramatically by the Labor (stupid Americanised spelling) government and has continued to be hiked even with the current Liberal (neo-conservatives masquerading as liberals) government. Further in 2012 Australia became the first country to introduce plain packaging laws which basically prohibited all forms of branding logos, colours, and promotional texts whether be on a billboard, poster or even the packets themselves. Basically it made every box of cigarettes look like this (You can read up more about it here). This has had the effect of reducing the amount of smokers in Australia since 1989/1990 by 23%. More importantly it has basically stymied the amount of new smokers taking up the habit to the low digits.

So really combating and reducing drug-use requires the cooperation and engagement of the wider fabric of society - from the Government, the private-sector but most importantly the individual. But just importantly it is something that must combated using various other means whether they be educational, financial or economic and not just through the use of law enforcement. Any lone initiative whether they be taken up by the authorities or even a well-meaning private foundation can only be expected to fall flat. Hence it is rather more important to focus on all aspects and not just focus on a single one.


Yeah, it seems the Liberals (I'm assuming you mean actual Liberals, not the American monstrosity) have really taken a hit over here. Funny thing is, they're blaming us for everything. We (Liberals, although over here I suppose we could be called Whigs.) haven't had any real power in over a century, if not more. The movement is growing, but we have several pretender factions such as the Libertarian party and the Republicans. The Republicans just plays politics, uninterested in actual policy, theory, or facts for that matter. The Libertarian Party is just an aborted child of the Republican party. Moreover, large portions of the faction are simply insane anarchists (Taxation is theft? No government?).

04.04.2017 04:08
Quote this message in a reply
Ajay Alcos
Unregistered


Post: #17
RE: Economic Blog

yangusbeef Wrote:
Yeah, it seems the Liberals (I'm assuming you mean actual Liberals, not the American monstrosity) have really taken a hit over here. Funny thing is, they're blaming us for everything. We (Liberals, although over here I suppose we could be called Whigs.) haven't had any real power in over a century, if not more. The movement is growing, but we have several pretender factions such as the Libertarian party and the Republicans. The Republicans just plays politics, uninterested in actual policy, theory, or facts for that matter. The Libertarian Party is just an aborted child of the Republican party. Moreover, large portions of the faction are simply insane anarchists (Taxation is theft? No government?).


Too true. Personally my thoughts towards the current predicament in Western politics arise from the actions and objectives first-world democracies have taken since the end of the Cold War. From the 90's onward Western democracies seem to have remained focussed toward spreading and in some areas strengthening democratic systems and institutions in the third-world (as well as the post-communist states). As a result they've in a way neglected to shore up and correct the deficiencies in their own systems. The would go a long way explaining the pent up anger that has been building in a vast amount of people, anger which is now spreading like wildfire right now throughout the West.

Like Rome, the bedrock of any republic lies in its small-holders or middle-income earners. When opportunities for this base of the population are found to be diminishing and (in most cases) made far more accessible to just the elites, it will indelibly create angst and instability just like in old Rome. Such circumstances naturally provide an opportunity for populists and/or would-be demagogues such as your modern Gracchi, Marius or Caesar to suddenly pop out of obscurity and create mayhem. So in essence diminishing opportunity, inequality and a disconnected establishment are the factors most lethal to the longevity of republics.

Then again for most of society, particularly the affected groups, the only recourse for them is to put the blame on others whether be they their current economic system, so-called "others" (immigrants, minorities, upper-classes) and of course the political elite. That is perfectly understandable, but it is not a remedy for deeper functional and systemic problems which have lead to such predicaments. It is therefore more logical in my opinion to focus that anger towards outlining the issues endemic to the political system (lack of opportunity, security, inequality, corruption, economic stagnation etc.) and find the ways and means of solving them.

This could mean reforming the political system so as to give the populace the means to veto unpopular measures (e.g. violation of privacy, public intrusiveness) via a system of petitions and referendums (i.e. 3 million signatures for a petition to be heard followed by a referendum that requires the participation of 35% of the electorate to be made binding). There a numerous ways with which governments and populations can endeavour to make sure that their institutions better represent the wishes of the wider-public. But as of current circumstances anger without particular aim will most certainly lead to destructive aims rather than constructive.

Not particularly related but I find this to be quite an interesting read.

05.04.2017 08:02
Quote this message in a reply
Pages (2): « First < Previous 1 [2] Last »
Post Reply  Post Thread 

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Economic advice Justine27 6 1,308 24.07.2018 19:36
Last Post: Richard Wilson
  [Vox] Homer Simpson: An economic analysis Ajay Alcos 0 1,042 06.02.2017 11:57
Last Post: Ajay Alcos
  Economic cranks behind MMT? Helsworth 7 1,596 04.02.2017 08:11
Last Post: VineFynn
  Economic Concept: Free Trade yangusbeef 1 1,550 10.01.2017 02:00
Last Post: VineFynn
  The importance of Economic Rent Helsworth 0 1,008 26.11.2016 14:26
Last Post: Helsworth
  Your Own Economic System CaiusFilimon 81 9,569 09.10.2015 07:23
Last Post: Helsworth
  How to turn litter into money, all about debt, deficits, and economic policy Helsworth 0 2,684 13.12.2014 21:18
Last Post: Helsworth
  New Blog RichardAWilson 10 1,954 23.06.2014 10:13
Last Post: Helsworth
  Loanable Funds To Endogenous Money Live (what every economic model lacks) Helsworth 0 1,308 11.03.2014 18:20
Last Post: Helsworth
  The Green Economy and China's Economic Development Helsworth 1 1,312 27.01.2014 18:02
Last Post: TriniSary7

View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this Thread | Add Thread to Favorites

Forum Jump: