Post Reply  Post Thread 

Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

Author Message
wacky9
Junior Member
*


Posts: 14
Words count: 995
Group: Basic
Joined: Jun2014
Status: Offline
Reputation: 0
Experience: 16
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #1
Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

Hamas is not the victim. Despite the fact they only show wounded Hamas children and are in no way unbiased, I still believe that Israel is the victim and Hamas is crying to its mommy that that it hit Israel and got hit back.

28.07.2014 15:36
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Helsworth
Heathen
****


Posts: 8,854
Words count: 1,597,451
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Nov2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 146
Experience: 859
Glory Points: 260
Medals: 11

Post: #2
RE: Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

wacky9 Wrote:
Hamas is not the victim. Despite the fact they only show wounded Hamas children and are in no way unbiased, I still believe that Israel is the victim and Hamas is crying to its mommy that that it hit Israel and got hit back.

I didn't know that children are Hamas, IDF, republican, or liberals.
Children are fucking children.
Nobody is crying for Hamas ranks. Fuck Hamas!
How is Israel the victim in the siege of Gaza conducted by the IDF?
The IDF wants to bomb Gaza to the "middle ages". The words of the Israeli minister of interior: “The Goal of the Operation Is to Send Gaza Back to the Middle Ages”, “Destroying All the Infrastructure Including Roads and Water”
It's not about killing Hamas. Israel could do that with covert-ops.
It's not about taking down Hamas, it's about destroying infrastructure.

The same year, Gilad Sharon – the son of former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon – wrote an Op-Ed in the Jerusalem Post saying:

“We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

“There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing.”

At the same time, in my opinion, the IDF is doing a huge favor for Hamas. Via indiscriminate killing, they are giving Hamas a larger pool of manpower to raise. From adults, to elders and youth, people who've lost family members, loved ones, and property in Israel's siege - ready to commit vengeance killing. It's a sure strange way to "combat terrorism" in my view. If one wants to destroy infrastructure, no matter the cost, they blow it up with AOE means. If one wants to combat terrorist groups, one does it via covert-ops. I pity Israel's soldiers as well, those who have not been brainwashed into behaving as killer drones - like Captain R. Their government is sending them out to slaughter and be killed for no goddman reason, outside pure bloody geopolitics.


https://www.patreon.com/SerbanVCEnache

This post was last modified: 28.07.2014 15:57 by Helsworth.

28.07.2014 15:53
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dotakhiin
Hohe Energie!
**


Posts: 2,120
Words count: 150,092
Group: Premium
Joined: Feb2013
Status: Offline
Reputation: 43
Experience: 1761
Glory Points: 145
Medals: 7

Post: #3
RE: Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

The Hamas is hiding in between the Civilians, is bunkering weapons in schools, hospitals and flats or houses to get them targeted by the IDF.

Even though the IDF has killed Civilians, these are very low compared to the number of their air and land raids/attacks. If Jerusalem would intend to decimate the Palestines, they have more than the ability to do that, but they don't.

The Hamas is defenitely not the victim. Fuck Hamas.


GeoW Wrote:
Als ob ich der Vandale wäre, der die BRD abreißen würde.


Nietzsche Wrote:

GeoW Wrote:

adder Wrote:
Menschen wollen eigentlich keine Geschenke, sondern die Möglichkeit, selbst für sich zu sorgen.

Nicht jeder ist so sozialisiert wie wir beide. Wink


Gott sei Dank.

This post was last modified: 28.07.2014 17:34 by dotakhiin.

28.07.2014 16:54
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Helsworth
Heathen
****


Posts: 8,854
Words count: 1,597,451
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Nov2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 146
Experience: 859
Glory Points: 260
Medals: 11

Post: #4
RE: Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

dotakhiin Wrote:
The Hamas is hiding in between the Civilians, is bunkering weapons in schools, hospitals and flats or houses to get them targeted by the IDF.
Even though the IDF has killed Civilians, these are very low compared to the number of their air and land raids/attacks.

You don't see the police guns and rockets blazing in hostage take-over situations. Say Hamas is stopping people from leaving a building, who is destroying that building and everyone in it? It's the IDF! Not even Franco bombed the Basque region in the effort to take down ETA. What the IDF is doing is NOT combating Hamas, it's simply decimating infrastructure, homes, and human life.

These 2012-2013 UN stats speak for themselves:


If the IDF would really care about taking down Hamas operatives and their equipment, they'd declare martial law in Gaza (like Franco did in the Basque region) - and scouring building and roof before seizing arms.
This argument that Hamas is responsible for the deaths committed by the IDF in its siege operations is nothing more than a pseudoargument. And because it's intentional, it is pure sophistry.
The IDF's actions under hawkish administration is NOT combating Hamas. It's simply raining terror upon the people of Gaza. It's actually strengthening Hamas' popularity. Once again, given their political aims and ideology, the israeli hawks and Hamas have a symbiotic relationship. Hamas doesn't want a two state solution. The israeli government does not want a two-state relantionship. What happened to the man who went against the hawkish stance of Israel politics? Rabin got himself assassinated.

At least 815 Palestinians have been killed and more than 5,240 injured in the Israeli assault, according to the health ministry in Gaza.
Two Israeli civilians have been killed by fire from Gaza since the offensive began.
The total number of Israeli soldiers killed since the start of the military assault stands at 32. One more soldier has been listed as missing and is believed to be dead.


Meanwhile, in the west, the tragic MH17 is used as geopolitical propaganda by the western governments and media. Despite that more people are being killed in Gaza, MH17 keeps the headlines because the press uses it as direct "PR" leverage against Putin. Linking him directly to what those fucking rebels did. When the US in 1988 took down a civilian Airbus from Iran - the press didn't give titles like: George Bush's terrorist action. The destruction of that plane was called "a tragic error" and "accident". So, yeah, I can't stand double-standards. And especially I can't stand fake humanitarian indignation. It's all about geopolitics - not ethics. Anyone invoking right and wrong, good and evil in these matters is lying himself to the core.
#hatemankind

If Israel wanted Palestine to be a state, it would have done it by now. Simply fund secular social-political movements in Gaza that serve such a goal. Tear down the settlements, which are illegal under UN law. Offer them access to water, electricity, infrastructure, jobs, freedom of movement et all. But what did the Israeli government do initially? It backed HAMAS!!! in order to create a powerful opposition to the secular POL. They funded a right wing fundamentalist organization to keep Gaza divided - and also to be able to invoke the reason what "we can't negotiate with these people who don't recognize our right to exist." Just like the US did with al Qaeda and other fundamentalist movements during the cold war.

Btw, check this out.


https://www.patreon.com/SerbanVCEnache

This post was last modified: 28.07.2014 18:40 by Helsworth.

28.07.2014 18:12
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chad7405
Unregistered


Post: #5
RE: Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

Helsworth the key thing you're missing is that Israel is doing it's best not just to reach a cease-fire because everyone knows that won't mean shit to Hamas. The point of the infrastructure war isn't to cripple the people, it's to destroy their capability to make war and therefore create a lasting peace. I'd bet my house that if they achieved that goal and disabled the Hamas war machine they'd immediately send aid to the civilian population again like they have in the past. Sometimes violence has to be solved with violence whether you or anyone else likes it or not; that's indisputable.

28.07.2014 18:56
Quote this message in a reply
Helsworth
Heathen
****


Posts: 8,854
Words count: 1,597,451
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Nov2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 146
Experience: 859
Glory Points: 260
Medals: 11

Post: #6
RE: Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

chad7405 Wrote:
Helsworth the key thing you're missing is that Israel is doing it's best not just to reach a cease-fire because everyone knows that won't mean shit to Hamas. The point of the infrastructure war isn't to cripple the people, it's to destroy their capability to make war and therefore create a lasting peace. I'd bet my house that if they achieved that goal and disabled the Hamas war machine they'd immediately send aid to the civilian population again like they have in the past. Sometimes violence has to be solved with violence whether you or anyone else likes it or not; that's indisputable.

What war machine, dude? Where is this war machine lying behind apartment blocks, schools, hospitals, and UN centers?
The intention of the IDF is to destroy civilian infrastructure. By the logic of bombing and razing to eliminate Hamas threat - they'd have to literally destroy the WHOLE country. As the minister of interior said, "Bomb them to the middle ages."
Again, why do this!? It doesn't do away with Hamas! It simply ensures future vengeance actions against Israel.
If they want to eliminate Hamas - use covert-ops. Otherwise, the next time terrorists take shelter in a populated building; the police should simply bring in the artillery and kill everything that's inside.
Gaza does not have an army, doesn't have artillery, doesn't have a navy. Doesn't have air forces. Doesn't have a land army.
Israel has all these things.
If they wanted to eliminate Hamas, they could do it without destroying the lives of innocents and their property. It's like a right-wing regime bombing the entire neighborhood of a certain ethnicity - because "terrorists" live among them. To hell with everyone else, we see only terrorists and we'll kill them at any cost.
Israeli murderers are called commandos, arab commandos are called terrorists. Once again, this is my opinion and I stick to it; the present operation in Gaza has nothing to do with eliminating Hamas. You cannot remove an enemy political faction without having another faction (one you favor) step in to fill the power vacuum. Israel isn't interested in finding and funding a political voice within Gaza with which to negotiate - not ceasefire or peace - but a two state agreement and honor it. If Hamas were to be eliminated, the israeli hawks would not longer be able to justify their abject policies to the moderates. They'd be required to make concenssions - and they don't want that.
Once again, even Franco - who was the fucking dictator - didn't go and bomb The Basque Country in response to ETA's own terrorist actions. Indiscriminate killing done by the government CANNOT be justified by blaming it on the other side - using the civlians as shields. There's no justification for such actions. Israel is not being invaded. Is not at war with a country. It can't invoke the issue that - this is our last option, we've tried everything else.

And the other idea that I've seen around the web, that, "well, the palestinians voted for Hamas - so they're terrorists also. Kill them all." This is so fucking warped. It's like a palestinian saying, since the IDF killed my brother and sister, put my father in jail, wounded my mother and destroyed my home - that gives me the right to kill all and any israelis I encounter in my life."
This is utter malefaction at work. This is what the israeli hawks sow within Gaza. This is what Hamas feeds upon.


https://www.patreon.com/SerbanVCEnache
28.07.2014 19:25
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Lord Weasel
Great Heavenly Supreme Eater of Rabbits
*


Posts: 731
Words count: 66,104
Group: Basic
Joined: Oct2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 25
Experience: 103889
Glory Points: 30
Medals: 2

Post: #7
RE: Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

chad7405 Wrote:
Helsworth the key thing you're missing is that Israel is doing it's best not just to reach a cease-fire because everyone knows that won't mean shit to Hamas. The point of the infrastructure war isn't to cripple the people, it's to destroy their capability to make war and therefore create a lasting peace. I'd bet my house that if they achieved that goal and disabled the Hamas war machine they'd immediately send aid to the civilian population again like they have in the past. Sometimes violence has to be solved with violence whether you or anyone else likes it or not; that's indisputable.


So not content with taking all the land from the civilian population, and all of the resources, they are now eliminating their infrastructure over minute mortar shell attacks, and you're justifying this? I might add that in the process they are going to drive far more people into the hands of Hamas than they are going to cripple it's capacity to make war.

The weapons Hamas uses can be made in a kitchen, and the bullets they use are easy to come by in the middle east. Now compute this, your mother/father/friend/brother/sister/goat has been killed by an Isreali strike from what is ancestrally your land. Are you sure you wouldn't fire a couple of rockets. I know I would.

I am not pro Hamas in the slightest, I'm anti Isreal. If there was a country on earth that deserved sanctions for human rights abuses Isreal would be it.

30.08.2014 09:38
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rising Phoenix
Unregistered


Post: #8
RE: Everyone is pro Hamas! Shouldn't be!

wacky9 Wrote:
Hamas is not the victim. Despite the fact they only show wounded Hamas children and are in no way unbiased,

I was not aware that if you were a terrorist, your daughter and son are actomatically terrorists, too. Despite the possibility that maybe neither of them may have ever held a weapon or bomb...

wacky9 Wrote:
I still believe that Israel is the victim and Hamas is crying to its mommy that that it hit Israel and got hit back.

There was a neat quote that I really liked, but I cannot find the source now. Instead, I will quote this answer from Yahoo! Answers which conveys pretty much the same meaning:

Quote:
Here's a better example:

Your twin brother lives in his room. You move into his room, and beat him up, forcing him out of his bed and onto the floor. Each day, you restrict his space further, and you buy a cage to put him in. You also force him to stay in his cage while you dine in luxury and buy a computer to surf the internet. He's upset by this and wants his room back, so he starts shooting you with rubber bands until you react by restricting his bathroom privileges. You offer him his bathroom priviliges back in exchange for his promise to not shoot you with rubber bands. Seeing this as grossly unfair, he refuses. Then he uses the rubber bands to launch sharpened paperclips that cause you to bleed. You try to ignore it for a while because your parents said you're not allowed to hurt your brother, but finally you get fed up and beat him repeatedly with a baseball bat, and then taze him for good measure. Your reasoning for this that you just want to be left alone to surf the internet. Your parents give you a stern warning to stop beating your brother with a baseball bat and taser, but they still give you your allowance and dessert after dinner, and there's no meaningful repercussions aside from the verbal warning. After the beating, you still don't let him eat regular food or go to the bathroom, but you promise that if he stops shooting you with paperclips, you'll let him go number two in an actual toilet... eventually.

Your question is like asking whether the baseball bat and taser are justified, where really your goal is to ultimately kick your brother out of his old room without losing your allowance. But wouldn't it be better if you both _shared_ the room? The problem is, after all the bad things you and your brother have done to each other, will either of you trust the other enough to sleep in the same room as him? This is the problem facing Israel/Palestine today.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...650AAOWXhN

03.09.2014 08:09
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply  Post Thread 

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Israel and the U.S. CREATED Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda Helsworth 0 3,229 26.07.2014 00:09
Last Post: Helsworth
  Hamas recognizes Israel - Netanyahu bails out on peace-talks Helsworth 0 1,508 26.04.2014 14:21
Last Post: Helsworth

View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this Thread | Add Thread to Favorites

Forum Jump: