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Nonsensical Task Outcome?

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DeathRider
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Post: #1
Nonsensical Task Outcome?

Hi, I just wanted to share a task outcome that I thought seemed unrealistic and ridiculous and figured I'd see if anyone else has seen it and their thoughts on it.

So a few days ago I addressed a Divorce related task that read as such:

"In the last few years, the divorce rate has risen to an alarming level."

The option I chose also seemed the most popular among users (40%), and read as such:

""Why is there such a fuss about a simple separation?" asks Dustin Kramer, who has himself passed trough an expensive and lengthy divorce. "One spouse submits the divorce request, according to a simple formula the possessions are divided 50-50, conditions regulated, alimony is paid only for children, and thus the affair is settled. That's simple, saves time and nerves!""

The outcome of this was as follows:

"Divorced spouses, who dedicated their life to raising their children, have them taken away as court decisions are tied to rigid divorce formulas."

This outcome is ridiculous and doesn't seem to actually relate to the option chosen which related to the division of assets/property and nothing to do with child custody (except the mention of alimony) nor indicates any reasons that would lead to children being taken away from their parents. Not to mention this one was generally the most sensible option available considering the other options were:

Shouldn't outcomes of tasks actually follow some kind of pattern of logical cause and effect?

This post was last modified: 16.11.2016 16:57 by DeathRider.

31.10.2016 17:13
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MrProper
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Post: #2
RE: Nonsensical Task Outcome?

I am sorry that you had to wait so long for a response.

Before I address your issue, I would like to state two things:
1.) The administration does not like it to much if whole tasks are posted here in the forum. It would be nice if you could edit your post and remove the other options from the task.
2.) The texts which are displayed one tick after solving a task are sometimes exaggerated, purely for entertainment.


In this particular task, however, such a situation may occur for women who dedicate their life to raising children. They will only get their 50% share of the entire family savings (remember, they will only get a one time share, and it is quite possible that this is not that much money). Assuming that it can be hard to find a job if you have not worked in years (or maybe never at all) and with no other source of income than alimony only paid for children, it might be impossible for them to sustain themselves and their children. The father, however, has less expenses than before since he does not have to pay any money to his former wife. Thus, a court may decide that the children are better of with their father due to his better economic situation.

Even if it does not mean that this will always happen, it now may happen to some women.

Personally, that it something I quite like about Ars Regendi. It often yields surprising outcomes when the player did not consider certain variables, which is not so far away from political reality.


冥王星違法です

This post was last modified: 07.11.2016 19:05 by MrProper.

07.11.2016 12:13
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yangusbeef
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Post: #3
RE: Nonsensical Task Outcome?

DeathRider Wrote:
Hi, I just wanted to share a task outcome that I thought seemed unrealistic and ridiculous and figured I'd see if anyone else has seen it and their thoughts on it.

So a few days ago I addressed a Divorce related task that read as such:

"In the last few years, the divorce rate has risen to an alarming level."

The option I chose also seemed the most popular among users (40%), and read as such:

""Why is there such a fuss about a simple separation?" asks Dustin Kramer, who has himself passed trough an expensive and lengthy divorce. "One spouse submits the divorce request, according to a simple formula the possessions are divided 50-50, conditions regulated, alimony is paid only for children, and thus the affair is settled. That's simple, saves time and nerves!""

The outcome of this was as follows:

"Divorced spouses, who dedicated their life to raising their children, have them taken away as court decisions are tied to rigid divorce formulas."

This outcome is ridiculous and doesn't seem to actually relate to the option chosen which related to the division of assets/property and nothing to do with child custody (except the mention of alimony) nor indicates any reasons that would lead to children being taken away from their parents. Not to mention this one was generally the most sensible option available considering the other options were:

"Until death do us part!" quotes priest Christian Sommer. "It is God's will that a marriage cannot be broken like a mobile phone contract. This is an indication of the decline of moral values in our society, so divorces should be made illegal and must follow religious codes only!"

"We need to abolish the no-fault divorce laws. A petition for divorce should only be filed on grounds of fault and the only two acceptable reasons are abuse or infidelity." believes Liselotte Nickenich, a conservative local politician. "In that case, custody and alimony should automatically be assigned to the damaged partner. A simple solution and courts would be relieved as well!"

"Marriage is a vestige of past days, an outdated religious institution, which illegitimately gives advantages to married couples in comparison to couples who just want to live together!" deplores Anna Mieslich who has been living unmarried with her partner for over 15 years. "By the way, if you have no marriages, you have no divorces!"

"Prenuptial agreements should no longer be optional, but a requirement for every marriage!" thinks Ellie McCann, a public notary. "This would mean security for all involved. Such a contract could even regulate whether a divorce is possible at all. This way people will decide exactly how their marriage is arranged and thus keep it out of the courts!"

Shouldn't outcomes of tasks actually follow some kind of pattern of logical cause and effect?


It is very logical; typically in society is the woman who makes care of the kids. With this 50-50 solution half of the kids will be taken away from her, and she will have to pay a part of alimony. With no job experience, or perhaps even with no education, you can see how this could become difficult. Likewise, the result of the task is written in a way to make the decision you chose seem unfair and arbitrary.

07.11.2016 18:29
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MrProper
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Post: #4
RE: Nonsensical Task Outcome?

yangusbeef Wrote:
With this 50-50 solution half of the kids will be taken away from her [...]

Without claiming interpretational sovereignty, I am not sure this exactly true. As stated in the option he implemented, only "possessions are divided 50-50". I doubt children count as possession from the juristical perspective, and splitting a single child is difficult. This is supported by the outcome "Divorced spouses, who dedicated their life to raising their children, have [all of] them taken away".

Many Ars Regendi tasks have a german touch, by which I mean that they reflect the political situation in Germany. In Germany, it has been normal in the past decades that children stay with their mother after a divorce; Even when the father actually is in a better economical situation. Thus, I believe that - as mentioned above - only if a mother is absolutely incapable of supporting her children, they may be taken away.


冥王星違法です

This post was last modified: 08.11.2016 11:29 by MrProper.

07.11.2016 19:18
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DeathRider
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Post: #5
RE: Nonsensical Task Outcome?

MrProper Wrote:
I am sorry that you had to wait so long for a response.

Before I address your issue, I would like to state two things:
1.) The administration does not like it to much if whole tasks are posted here in the forum. It would be nice if you could edit your post and remove the other options from the task.
2.) The texts which are displayed one tick after solving a task are sometimes exaggerated, purely for entertainment.


In this particular task, however, such a situation may occur for women who dedicate their life to raising children. They will only get their 50% share of the entire family savings (remember, they will only get a one time share, and it is quite possible that this is not that much money). Assuming that it can be hard to find a job if you have not worked in years (or maybe never at all) and with no other source of income than alimony only paid for children, it might be impossible for them to sustain themselves and their children. The father, however, has less expenses than before since he does not have to pay any money to his former wife. Thus, a court may decide that the children are better of with their father due to his better economic situation.

Even if it does not mean that this will always happen, it now may happen to some women.

Personally, that it something I quite like about Ars Regendi. It often yields surprising outcomes when the player did not consider certain variables, which is not so far away from political reality.


I've edited my post to remove the other options. The reason I had included them was to show that this was really the most moderate option available. The others were either very religious, demanded all married couples sign prenups, abolishing marriage entirely and other similar ridiculous things that would infringe on people's rights either way.

A few things I wanted to respond to though from your post. Over here, women (or people generally) don't have their children taken away from them just because they are poor. Usually there has to be some evidence of outright neglect. There are homeless shelters and other social services for example that specifically house mothers and their children. The circumstances are different if a mother (or parent in general) may be endangering children because of an addiction, is violent, or is living in a violent situation they refuse to leave or get help for. Also, over here in the case of an official divorce the parent who does not have full custody of the children is usually obliged to pay child support to the parent with full custody.

But the result of this task said nothing about that any of this. It says only that parents (plural, implying neither parent has custody) who dedicated their lives to raising their children have them taken away. That seems to imply that the children become wards of the state/are put into foster care etc. That does not make much sense at all to me regardless of parental financial situation.

This task just bugged me because there was only one remotely moderate option, and that option seemed to result in children being fostered/becoming wards of the state for no given reason.

This post was last modified: 16.11.2016 17:11 by DeathRider.

16.11.2016 17:09
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