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Reform the influence bar!!!

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Sheep
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Post: #11
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

Well, if the majority of interesting reforms would be very easy and fast to implement, that would basically cost Ars Regendi half a feature. Right now it's a challenge to introduce your favourite reforms early on - you really want to trade this for '*click* *click* enabled *click* *click* enabled *click* *click* *click* enabled... oh I'm done with reforms'?

You guys had a good discussion about AR as simulation (meaning: about realism), but don't forget AR is half a game. And a game is about fun - and challenges are one way to provide fun.


02.04.2015 22:14
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Helsworth
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Post: #12
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

Sheep Wrote:
Well, if the majority of interesting reforms would be very easy and fast to implement, that would basically cost Ars Regendi half a feature. Right now it's a challenge to introduce your favourite reforms early on - you really want to trade this for '*click* *click* enabled *click* *click* enabled *click* *click* *click* enabled... oh I'm done with reforms'?

You guys had a good discussion about AR as simulation (meaning: about realism), but don't forget AR is half a game. And a game is about fun - and challenges are one way to provide fun.

It's not fun to increase the cost of reform propaganda progressively in order to make a low to mid-level reform such as negative income tax or privatized health care. It's not fun to see that you're so popular in the polls because you were smart with your task options pick, with improving the social stats of the country, but yet you can't reach a meager level 3 influence. Once you've overcome the challenge and you're not rewarded with at least being able to implement a basic level 3 influence reform, then that's not fun - it's just grinding. Just like the gems in Diablo 2 were not worth putting into your socketed items, because you had to gather more of them, put them in the Horadric cube to get better gems - and you ended up using the gems on Hell difficulty. That's why they changed it in Diablo 3, you can socket and unsocket gems - that way you actually get to use them instead of losing them by using them, when you find another gem to make a better one or find a better item you want to put them in. It's the same with Ars-Regendi. Why should the game penalize the choice in ideology of players with regard to their ability of implementing reforms?
Lord Alexander complained of this on day one of the change and since then I haven't seen him back.


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This post was last modified: 03.04.2015 15:05 by Helsworth.

03.04.2015 15:04
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Sheep
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Post: #13
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

In my opinion it totally can happen that a regent is popular but not really influential. MrProper covered that well, so I don't feel the need to repeat it with other words.

I think you are unhappy since Ars Regendi is not the pure sandbox tool which you appearantly want. As it is implemented, you cant simply build the society you want, you have to work your way through and probably end up penalized for your decisions - despite them being consequent implementations of a chosen ideology. If Ars Regendi would be a pure simulation, such a sandbox mode would likely exist - but few people would actually use such a pure simulation. Games are simply much more popular - in fact we constrain ourselves with AR being half game, half simulation instead of a full game.

Finally, I remember the discussion about increasing AP costs. Keep in mind the first two times of reform propaganda now cost less than in the old system, it's 1+2 compared to 2+2. It breaks even at three times, afterwards focusing on specific special actions gets penalized. For instance, you can start cures early on for a small permanent influence boost, helping with all the reforms you want to introduce.


04.04.2015 00:09
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Helsworth
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Post: #14
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

Sheep Wrote:
For instance, you can start cures early on for a small permanent influence boost, helping with all the reforms you want to introduce.

What are cures? You mean regimen? The health of the regent drops through time, rendering the "permanent influence increase" rather unpermanent.
My points have nothing to do with with making the game easier to "conquer". I simply stated that the approval rating/popularity in the polls formula is not realistic. FDR managed with less that 70% approval rating to do bank holiday and bank reform, to implement a minimum wage, to implement the welfare system and various other things. All I pointed out was that even though I had more than 70% approval rating, I couldn't even implement a level 3 reform, which is simply bogus. Secondly, I ask again, why penalize a regent's ability to implement his or hers desired reforms? Depending on how they play their states, they can always fail post-reform implementation if they don't prepare right. And thirdly, I didn't argue nor do I wish for a sand-box mode for Ars-Regendi. Being able to implement a basic level 3 influence reform with over 70% approval rating SHOULD be POSSIBLE. That's all I'm saying. Either that or simply rework the approval rating formula and tone it down.


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This post was last modified: 04.04.2015 12:46 by Helsworth.

04.04.2015 11:48
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Rising Phoenix
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Post: #15
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

I think he means the Cure for Cancer / Cure for Malaria projects.

At any rate, I think that as a game ARS is failing on the account of providing diversity to achieve one's goals. It is safe to assume that - barring certain reforms that need to be implemented first - the nation operates more or less as a limitless-term democracy. Under those auspices, why cannot a popular but legally-weak regent implement those reforms? I mean come on, I have seen online petitions with less that half a million signatures or so gain legal traction. Case in point: https://www.change.org/p/aprueben-la-ley...leaecuador

If something as ephemeral as an Internet community can put pressure on law-making bodies, why the heck cannot a popular regent just say: "People, I need you to pressure the Senate to approve this reform"? I know it is not necesarily orthodox, but then again most of the game already is not.

Lastly, one word about "popular regents that cannot enforce change". Generally those cases are more about regents actually implementing change but it getting rolled back by reactionaries - i.e.: Salvador Allende & Augusto Pinochet. In game these situations are already modelled by Extremists, so why not just have the Extremist statistic increase each time you perform a reform (with more radical / unprepared for reforms generating much more Extremists)?.

Nobody is arguing for turning ARS purely into a simulation. It is just that the game aspects could be improved upon - resulting in a more fun game.

04.04.2015 14:21
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chad7405
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Post: #16
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

I agree it should be changed; I personally think that popularity and international rep. should be weighted more than power, and time in office less across the board. The "first 100 days" is the saying for when an american president does most if not all of their sweeping reform... so it's definitely possible like Helsworth was saying about FDR. I think the most important change is simply weighting time in office less, but not entirely because I agree that as his role is cemented he gains more power and influence naturally.


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23.04.2015 19:29
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VineFynn
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Post: #17
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

Helsworth Wrote:

Sheep Wrote:
Well, if the majority of interesting reforms would be very easy and fast to implement, that would basically cost Ars Regendi half a feature. Right now it's a challenge to introduce your favourite reforms early on - you really want to trade this for '*click* *click* enabled *click* *click* enabled *click* *click* *click* enabled... oh I'm done with reforms'?

You guys had a good discussion about AR as simulation (meaning: about realism), but don't forget AR is half a game. And a game is about fun - and challenges are one way to provide fun.

It's not fun to increase the cost of reform propaganda progressively in order to make a low to mid-level reform such as negative income tax or privatized health care. It's not fun to see that you're so popular in the polls because you were smart with your task options pick, with improving the social stats of the country, but yet you can't reach a meager level 3 influence. Once you've overcome the challenge and you're not rewarded with at least being able to implement a basic level 3 influence reform, then that's not fun - it's just grinding. Just like the gems in Diablo 2 were not worth putting into your socketed items, because you had to gather more of them, put them in the Horadric cube to get better gems - and you ended up using the gems on Hell difficulty. That's why they changed it in Diablo 3, you can socket and unsocket gems - that way you actually get to use them instead of losing them by using them, when you find another gem to make a better one or find a better item you want to put them in. It's the same with Ars-Regendi. Why should the game penalize the choice in ideology of players with regard to their ability of implementing reforms?
Lord Alexander complained of this on day one of the change and since then I haven't seen him back.


Lord Alexander's currently running the "History of Krakow" thread, fyi


I'm leaving and probably never coming back, so thanks for the interesting discussions I guess, dunno why im writing this nobody even irl gives a toss about me anyway
30.09.2015 11:39
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Helsworth
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Post: #18
RE: Reform the influence bar!!!

VineFynn Wrote:
Lord Alexander's currently running the "History of Krakow" thread, fyi

He wasn't active at the time (had not returned to the forums) when I made this thread.


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This post was last modified: 30.09.2015 12:17 by Helsworth.

30.09.2015 12:16
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