Post Reply  Post Thread 
Pages (5): « First [1] 2 3 4 5 Next > Last »

Bernie Sanders

Author Message
Edvard Kardelj
General Secretary
*


Posts: 274
Words count: 44,838
Group: Basic
Joined: Aug2015
Status: Offline
Reputation: 6
Experience: 61
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #1
Bernie Sanders

17.10.2015 17:03
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Helsworth
Heathen
****


Posts: 8,854
Words count: 1,597,451
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Nov2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 146
Experience: 859
Glory Points: 260
Medals: 11

Post: #2
RE: Bernie Sanders

Sanders talks as if he has two balls in his mouth, and he's talking the usual deficit dove bullshit.
Dear #leftists, by saying "Make the rich pay for it" you're perpetuating the same zombie economic theology preached by the right. By saying that you're validating the bullshit lies spewed by Ayn Rand.
If he gets the presidency, he's gonna be a deception just like Obama was. The main difference being, in my opinion, on foreign policy, cause the Obama presidency is bound to be less hawkish than that of Sanders, who is a zionist & completely defended what Israel did to Palestine in the last rounds of indiscriminate murderous bombings.
Until a popular politician starts explaining to his electorate how fiscal policy really works, the rich won't pay their fair share & average plebeians will still see the 1% as job creators and defend them (without true reason, except that of zombie economic theology preached by both the deficit hawks & doves).


https://www.patreon.com/SerbanVCEnache

This post was last modified: 17.10.2015 18:01 by Helsworth.

17.10.2015 17:48
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Theolor
First Consul
*


Posts: 238
Words count: 15,264
Group: Basic
Joined: Dec2010
Status: Offline
Reputation: 4
Experience: 322
Glory Points: 345
Medals: 9

UC of America
Nebrasskaa
Post: #3
RE: Bernie Sanders

This is the establishment response to Bernie Winning the Dem Debate


First Consul of the Earth Republic, First Consul of the National Coalition of Ecology and Peace , First Consul of the Green Party of the Earth Republic
17.10.2015 18:57
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Edvard Kardelj
General Secretary
*


Posts: 274
Words count: 44,838
Group: Basic
Joined: Aug2015
Status: Offline
Reputation: 6
Experience: 61
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #4
RE: Bernie Sanders

Income inequality has been an issue of popular discourse since the WTO riots in Seattle back in 1999. In spite of this, the electeds of both parties have either failed to address the issue, or have exacerbated it.

Now, you may or may not agree with Sanders' economic approach. There's no denying he enjoys greater popular support than the other candidates. The root of that support is the building urgency to address income inequality.

I attended a debate watch party on Tuesday. The hostess served us all 4-5 margaritas before the debate even began, so we are, admittedly, something of a rowdy bunch. I haven't spent an hour throwing small objects and shouting at the screen or cracking tasteless jokes with a group of total strangers like that since my Rocky Horror days. I remember at one point commenting to our Lush Electoral Fun Troupe that it was, for me, Bernie or Bust. Our hostess wagged a finger at me, as she struggled to remain upright, and announced that I was to vote for Hillary if it came down to it- or we risked another George Bush.

I disagreed, and still do, with her assertion. We got stuck with Bush because Gore was a terrible candidate. He had absolutely no fight in him whatever. By they time of the first debate, he seemed to have already given up. And if we insist on nominating candidates like Kerry or Clinton, well, we're going to lose, and rightly so.

Democracy is supposed to be about the people getting what they want. And the public wants someone who will deal with wealth inequality. Bernie's the only guy on that stage dealing with the subject directly and in plain, unambiguous language. We all know what he intends to do.

Now, if you've got a better idea how to correct the growing wealth gap, feel free to enter the race.

This post was last modified: 17.10.2015 19:31 by Edvard Kardelj.

17.10.2015 19:29
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Helsworth
Heathen
****


Posts: 8,854
Words count: 1,597,451
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Nov2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 146
Experience: 859
Glory Points: 260
Medals: 11

Post: #5
RE: Bernie Sanders

Typical neoliberals blackmailing leftist voters to vote for them, else the republicans win. The neocons do the same to the libertarians, vote for us else the democrats win. Some democracy for ya...
I wish I could be there with all of them, Sanders & Trump included, and I would bury them. Sadly, I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have the money to wage such a campaign even if I was. I really can't understand why it's so hard to come on stage and explain in 5 minutes why taxes don't finance spending, that it works the other way around. Sanders can stress income inequality all he wants, at the end of the day, with his deficit dove rhetoric, he is giving legitimacy & validation to Ayn Rand type of (failed) reasoning. It's like your example in the Papacy thread. Why am I paying you to argue in zombie economic theology, favored by neolibs, neocons, and right wing libertarians?


https://www.patreon.com/SerbanVCEnache
17.10.2015 20:02
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Theolor
First Consul
*


Posts: 238
Words count: 15,264
Group: Basic
Joined: Dec2010
Status: Offline
Reputation: 4
Experience: 322
Glory Points: 345
Medals: 9

UC of America
Nebrasskaa
Post: #6
RE: Bernie Sanders

Helsworth Wrote:
Typical neoliberals blackmailing leftist voters to vote for them, else the republicans win. The neocons do the same to the libertarians, vote for us else the democrats win. Some democracy for ya...
I wish I could be there with all of them, Sanders & Trump included, and I would bury them. Sadly, I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have the money to wage such a campaign even if I was. I really can't understand why it's so hard to come on stage and explain in 5 minutes why taxes don't finance spending, that it works the other way around. Sanders can stress income inequality all he wants, at the end of the day, with his deficit dove rhetoric, he is giving legitimacy & validation to Ayn Rand type of (failed) reasoning. It's like your example in the Papacy thread. Why am I paying you to argue in zombie economic theology, favored by neolibs, neocons, and right wing libertarians?


If taxes on the rich, corporations, and wall street don't cover it then we can always gut military spending. The USA does not need to be the worlds police.


First Consul of the Earth Republic, First Consul of the National Coalition of Ecology and Peace , First Consul of the Green Party of the Earth Republic
17.10.2015 20:12
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Helsworth
Heathen
****


Posts: 8,854
Words count: 1,597,451
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Nov2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 146
Experience: 859
Glory Points: 260
Medals: 11

Post: #7
RE: Bernie Sanders

Theolor Wrote:

Helsworth Wrote:
Typical neoliberals blackmailing leftist voters to vote for them, else the republicans win. The neocons do the same to the libertarians, vote for us else the democrats win. Some democracy for ya...
I wish I could be there with all of them, Sanders & Trump included, and I would bury them. Sadly, I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have the money to wage such a campaign even if I was. I really can't understand why it's so hard to come on stage and explain in 5 minutes why taxes don't finance spending, that it works the other way around. Sanders can stress income inequality all he wants, at the end of the day, with his deficit dove rhetoric, he is giving legitimacy & validation to Ayn Rand type of (failed) reasoning. It's like your example in the Papacy thread. Why am I paying you to argue in zombie economic theology, favored by neolibs, neocons, and right wing libertarians?


If taxes on the rich, corporations, and wall street don't cover it then we can always gut military spending. The USA does not need to be the worlds police.

Taxes don't cover anything. They just take financial income out of the economy. Too small fiscal deficits & unfairly distribution of fiscal deficit funds forces people to rely more on bank debt & consequently hinder the ability of people to deleverage on those private debts. By reducing spending on the Military Industrial Complex, you're reducing financial income for the economy. Neither the rich, nor the poor, nor the middle class fund through their taxes things like Afghanistan, Iraq, Social Security, Public health care, roads & bridges, or pension funds. These things are financed by the government debt (net fiscal debits accrued over time).


https://www.patreon.com/SerbanVCEnache

This post was last modified: 17.10.2015 20:30 by Helsworth.

17.10.2015 20:29
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Edvard Kardelj
General Secretary
*


Posts: 274
Words count: 44,838
Group: Basic
Joined: Aug2015
Status: Offline
Reputation: 6
Experience: 61
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #8
RE: Bernie Sanders

I remember visiting Montreal back in 2005.I had dinner with some friends, who began by describing their contempt for US politics. Later in the conversation, they ironically mentioned that I as an American had no right to discuss Canadian politics- that was an example of Americans being imperialistic you see. The earlier commentary on US politics was somehow not Canadian imperialism, however.

I'm not sure you would do well on the American political stage, Helsworth. I have no idea if you're brilliant or not, since I don't understand economics well enough to determine if your posts on MMT are meritorious or nonsense. They could very well be either, but the level at which you explain them is so far over my level of understanding- half the time I don't even know what the graphs you're posting represent- it's impossible for me to say.

Now, I'm sure you might stun some people into silence that way - after all, who wants to admit they don't understand what's going on? It's like the Emperor's New Clothes, if I say you're naked, you can always retort that my inability to see the cloth implies my incompetence.

That really doesn't get you votes, though. Not here, anyway. We've had candidates in all levels of government that haven' been able to communicate clearly in a way the voters can understand before- Gore was one of them. They always lose to the candidates who are well understood.

People "get" Bernie. They understand what he's trying to say. That's why he's winning. He resonates with people. Whether his approach is correct or not, we feel like it makes some measure of sense.



Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
   
17.10.2015 21:17
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Helsworth
Heathen
****


Posts: 8,854
Words count: 1,597,451
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Nov2008
Status: Offline
Reputation: 146
Experience: 859
Glory Points: 260
Medals: 11

Post: #9
RE: Bernie Sanders

Paul Samuelson on the myth of balancing the budget.
Samuelson didn't trust the people with the knowledge that government is NOT like a household budget. He equates it to a superstition, to old fashion religion - he says that this religious scare-tactic is required for civilized life. I don't. Because ultimately, I don't trust governments, or elites (intellectual or financial). I trust populations capable of critical thinking, wanting to be informed & aware of what's happening. Wanting to be, first and foremost, aware of the facts, not opinions or ideology.


The fact that you're still agnostic about facts put forward by Modern Monetary Theory tells me that I was not persuasive enough to capture your curiosity. I remember when I first heard of MMT on this forum from Crossover's posts, I was defensive at first because of zombie economic beliefs I was taught by the mainstream, but his claims stirred so much of my curiosity that I looked up MMT on youtube, on social media, and Google and I voila, I was illuminated & since then, I've been living my life even more frustrated than before.
I never lost a debate at Uni, and I left speechless old fossils as well when I explained (at a session for economics "management in times of crisis") how government bills of exchange could serve as money, as means of investment, and future equity (no need to raise taxes for new spending). And that was when I wasn't aware of MMT, but an adept of the Historical School of Economics - was basically stating Friedrich List approach to creating output via government intervention.

I truly hope Sanders wins the presidency, but something tells me the majority of americans will vote for their "job creators", aka Trump. If that were to happen, I'd consider moving to the UK. Stephanie Kelton is a deficit owl (an MMTer), and I don't know why Sanders still argues as a dove. Guess there's only so much she can do against the political machine...
PS: Those canadians were being arrogant jerks & hypocrites.


https://www.patreon.com/SerbanVCEnache

This post was last modified: 17.10.2015 21:42 by Helsworth.

17.10.2015 21:35
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Edvard Kardelj
General Secretary
*


Posts: 274
Words count: 44,838
Group: Basic
Joined: Aug2015
Status: Offline
Reputation: 6
Experience: 61
Glory Points: 0
Medals: 0

Post: #10
RE: Bernie Sanders

If Trump wins, I'll be less worried. If Carson wins, I've got real problems.

Trump is a performer. He dances around on a stage and sings us a little song he knows all please the crowd. Does he believe the song's lyrics?

Well, I appreciate the power and the beauty of Handel's Messiah, and I'm an atheist. I also rather like Palestrina.

Now, if the crowd interprets that song and dance as some kind of platform or a promise, the joke's on them.

Carson's another ball of wax. The man isn't stupid. He's probably the smartest person running for President at the moment. However, he's a bigot, a religious fundamentalist, and a war hawk. Unlike Trump, who's made his reputation as part of the entertainment industry more than anything else, Carson hasn't made a career out of faking it. Trump knows how to lie, the way any actor does. Carson's career depended on being as truthful as possible.

Trump is unlikely to execute plans the way he promises them Carson is very likely to do exactly what he's promising to do. And that's very bad news if you're GLBT, non-christian, or a citizen of any country with a lot of natural resources we happen to be in short supply of at the moment.

If I did have to effect an escape plan, my journey would not be Eastward, but Northbound. Harper is doing very badly in the polls, and up for re-election in a matter of weeks. Mulcair and Trudeau are VERY pro-GLBT, an neither is a religious wingnut.

Vancouver is much like Washington State- more rainy than snowy. Canadians are world-renowned for their politeness, nonviolence, and friendliness. Not to mention their cleanliness- the most striking thing about Montreal, when you get there, is how is it that huge city like that can be so completely devoid of trash. I imagine Vancouver is much the same. Therefore, my escape plan is to head home to Seattle, pick up my brother there, and flee North.

17.10.2015 22:00
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Pages (5): « First [1] 2 3 4 5 Next > Last »
Post Reply  Post Thread 

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Trump vs. Bernie in the First Ever @midnight Presidential Debate Helsworth 0 1,375 31.03.2016 12:59
Last Post: Helsworth
  Bernie Sanders wins Washington, Alaska, and Hawaii Helsworth 1 1,498 28.03.2016 23:20
Last Post: yangusbeef
  Asher Edelman, aka Gordon Gekko, supports Bernie Sanders & explains why Helsworth 7 1,825 18.03.2016 14:55
Last Post: yangusbeef
  Cornel West on Bernie Sanders, Michael Eric Dyson, Trans Rights, and B.B. King Helsworth 0 1,767 05.08.2015 12:25
Last Post: Helsworth

View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this Thread | Add Thread to Favorites

Forum Jump: