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Thoughts on F.D.R.

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beste
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Post: #1
Thoughts on F.D.R.

Lately, I've seen more and more "alternative" views of American President FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt).
For example: even though he wasn't technically violating the Constitution, he held onto the presidency for over 4 terms (16 years) essentially claiming that the Depression and WWII wouldn't allow for him to give up office.
Also, his establishment of Americanized "concentration"/ political prisoner camps for Japanese, Italian, and German immigrants or for anyone who spoke out against his regime.
After the development of the Atom Bomb, FDR absolutely refused to use it against Japan. Even when his advisers told him over 1 million Allies would die in the invasion. "Off-the-record" reports say he was more worried about how to provide work for all the returning soldiers so if he could "eliminate" a few hundred-thousand, it would be better for him. Mysteriously, he died shortly after refusing to use the Atom Bomb and one of the first acts of Pres. Truman was to authorize the Atom Bomb's use against Japanese Imperial Forces.
Lastly, I met a Holocaust survivor who was friends with an American pilot in WWII. The pilot told them (the surviving Jews) that he was sorry the Allies couldn't save the Jews earlier. The Holocaust survivor asked what do you mean by "sorry." The pilot told him, the American military received orders from FDR ordering the pilots not to bomb concentration camp railway systems or cause diversions in favor of the concentration camp prisoners. In other words, supporting or at least tolerating the extermination of the Jews.
So.... My question is, what do the "citizens" or Ars-Regendi think of FDR? Post your reasons (the above are just some tidbits that affect how I (dis)approve of him.


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13.08.2011 21:37
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DRLHyper
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Post: #2
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

On my view of FDR:

+ Efficient Social Spending
+ Efficient Market Stimulation
+ Benefical Economic Policies
- He actively created concentration camps.
- He might have overspent.
- He pursued other controversial policies.

14.08.2011 00:16
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Kickass Q.
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Post: #3
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

The quintessential late industrial charismatic leader. Charismatic leader with an authoritarian streak within a a country that was unstable politically and economically. Continued Teddy Roosevelt's tradition of combining mild secular nationalism with mild social democratic reforms, contributing to the formation of American progressivism. He was a giant of American history, and his legacy is one of the most enduring in the nation, but his sometimes cold-hearted strategist and underhanded in his approaches. However given the strength of the American ultra-right at the time, he was arguably the least of all evils amongst those who had the ability to lead America during the largest war in history and the greatest economic turmoil in recent American history. The private sector still had an enormous robber-baron problem so to speak, and his reforms took them out well enough that the stable finance centred economy of America in the post-war period could prosper and become the strongest on Earth. Conversely, much of his social security programs (while advanced for the time) weren't sustainable and were never properly modernized as we did here in Canada, as well as Sweden and New Zealand. His economic micro-management techniques were also often overbearing, and for all the good that came out of many of them, many were outright harmful to the economy and bore nothing. His treatment of political dissidents may have been draconian, but given the climate of the time it's understandable if unpleasant. It was the era of charismatic authoritarian leaders in the West, and out of all of them I really believe that FDR was the best (Especially compared to utterly incompetent leaders that only had any value as a national symbol, ala Churchill). That's essentially my opinion of him.

14.08.2011 02:49
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Helsworth
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Post: #4
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

@Beste
Don't you think that bombarding those camps would result in loss of civilian life?
Don't you think that using the A-bomb would result in loss of civilian life? In war people die, it's better when soldiers kill soldiers and the civilians are left off. Just ask those people at Hiroshima and Nagasaki how they felt being blasted away, being irradiated and enduring the black rain? Truman had no such worries, because he was a Wall-Street asset who helped Churchill reverse FDR's anticolonial policies. FDR is not without faults, but given the context, he was a good president, that's why a fascist coup was attempted against him.


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This post was last modified: 14.08.2011 06:45 by Helsworth.

14.08.2011 06:44
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Globaltom
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Post: #5
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

beste Wrote:
Lately, I've seen more and more "alternative" views of American President FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt).
For example: even though he wasn't technically violating the Constitution, he held onto the presidency for over 4 terms (16 years) essentially claiming that the Depression and WWII wouldn't allow for him to give up office.

Shure it was remarkable that he reign through the WW
and so can not easy compared.

Quote:
Also, his establishment
of Americanized "concentration"/ political prisoner camps for Japanese, Italian, and German immigrants or for anyone who spoke out against his regime.

Shurely the "internment camps " had been a desaster in humanity,
but thrust was weak after Pearl Harbour and nobody can say
who risky the level of suicide attacks was at this time
( well possible by Japan)

Quote:
After the development of the Atom Bomb, FDR absolutely refused to use it against Japan. Even when his advisers told him over 1 million Allies would die in the invasion. "Off-the-record" reports say he was more worried about how to provide work for all the returning soldiers so if he could "eliminate" a few hundred-thousand, it would be better for him. Mysteriously, he died shortly after refusing to use the Atom Bomb and one of the first acts of Pres. Truman was to authorize the Atom Bomb's use against Japanese Imperial Forces.

Well you have a source ,what his main doubts had been with the
A - bomb ?
Also everyone know that 1 mio deaths will be utopic ?
( Marinecorps wasnt as big in size )

Quote:
Lastly, I met a Holocaust survivor who was friends with an American pilot in WWII. The pilot told them (the surviving Jews) that he was sorry the Allies couldn't save the Jews earlier. The Holocaust survivor asked what do you mean by "sorry." The pilot told him, the American military received orders from FDR ordering the pilots not to bomb concentration camp railway systems or cause diversions in favor of the concentration camp prisoners. In other words, supporting or at least tolerating the extermination of the Jews.

Well who can weight the effort?
If rail was destroyed , thex will use trucks , and if roads
be impossible to use, they maybee kill them at once .
Also the Bombers used for that, maybe missed for other
targets like factories or petrol raffineries Kopfkratz
So who can messure this ?

Quote:
So.... My question is, what do the "citizens" or Ars-Regendi think of FDR? Post your reasons (the above are just some tidbits that affect how I (dis)approve of him.

Well he maybee was a president for war , but not peace Hmm


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This post was last modified: 14.08.2011 17:25 by Globaltom.

14.08.2011 17:24
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BaktoMakhno
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Post: #6
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

Come on guys, everyone knows an allied invasion of Japan wasn't on the cards anywhere except in the propaganda for the use of the Bombs. If they hadn't been dropped, the Japanese leadership would have negotiated a conditional surrender with the USSR, in order to technically not be defeated by the US and maintain their warrior honour. This was the nightmare scenario which the bombs were dropped to avoid.


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14.08.2011 17:41
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Globaltom
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Post: #7
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

You have a source of ?
I never read of single plans with the UDSSR
without the USA ?


Briefwähler
14.08.2011 17:48
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BaktoMakhno
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Post: #8
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

"The beauty of free trade is that 1 and 1 can be 3" - Titian

"There is no conversation more boring than one where Globaltom speaks" - Triniterias
14.08.2011 18:20
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Globaltom
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Post: #9
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

BaktoMakhno Wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Enemy-Stalin-Truman-Surrender/dp/0674016939

Online discussion here:
http://www.medialens.org/cogitations/080...ds_the.php

But how does it strength you ?

Hasegawa never say that Japan was more pro soviet than USA.
He normaly argument that not only the bombs, but
also the Auguststorm break Japan.
He confirms that not one but both points defeat Japan.


Briefwähler
14.08.2011 18:33
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Helsworth
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Post: #10
RE: Thoughts on F.D.R.

Well lets stick to FDR's administration. Yes those internment camps were a big mistake, but come on, it's not like they were extermination camps.
Second FDR's policies are exactly what the world needs today.
1-Glass-Steagall-Separates commercial banking from investment banking. It protects depository institutions from getting mixed up in derivatives and other speculation garbage. It would revert the effects of the bailouts. It would also wipe out a lot of public debt/claims which is illegitimate and worthless. It would put the financial derivatives swindlers in bankruptcy.
2-Pecora Commission-It would hold accountable and punish those institutions which swindled the citizens and other companies.
3-CCCs-It would give a lot of nonproductive people, give them a skill and give them jobs.
4-Projects such as the Tennessee Valley Authority-NAWAPA style.
5-An international fixed exchange rate system.


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14.08.2011 19:42
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