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Trump commits an act of war against Syria

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Helsworth
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Post: #1
Trump commits an act of war against Syria

It's truly a fucked up world, when republicans and democrats are more of a threat to world peace than neo-nazis...
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-07...ia/8425132

"Sarin Gas Components Were Transferred To ISIS Via Turkey"
https://twitter.com/S_T_O_P_TERROR/statu...5156497412
THIS!!!

Quote:
"Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate."
~Donald Trump, October 2012

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...0904773633


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07.04.2017 06:29
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Ajay Alcos
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Post: #2
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

Helsworth Wrote:
It's truly a fucked up world, when republicans and democrats are more of a threat to world peace than neo-nazis...
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-07...ia/8425132

"Sarin Gas Components Were Transferred To ISIS Via Turkey"
https://twitter.com/S_T_O_P_TERROR/statu...5156497412
THIS!!!

Quote:
"Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate."
~Donald Trump, October 2012

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...0904773633


This goes to show that "Abu Ivanka" truly is an an all-round entertainer Smile.

Seriously though, the near-term consequences for this attack are minimal (Syria isn't North Korea... Yet). The timing of the gas attack and missile strike seem have been coincidentally opportune, considering the growing domestic criticality of Trump regarding his campaign's ties to Russia and the current state visit by Xi Jinping to the White House Mar-a-Lago.

Not only does his abrupt response stymie media interest (albeit somewhat temporarily) into his purported Russia ties (by showing himself as taking adversarial steps against them), it also puts Xi in a awkward position as to whether he should criticise Trump's response to the chemical attack (thus further aggravating relations between the two) or keep his mouth shut (which most likely see him criticised at home for weakness).

In terms of geopolitical interest, its also a way of exemplifying to America's adversaries, namely Russia & Iran, that malicious actions carried out by states under their protection can no longer be carried out with impunity. Sure it raises the risk of a direct clash between the major powers, but even that the overall risk is still quite low. I must say that his missile strike seems to be the most cleverest move Trump has done with his administration. He's basically subdued 3 birds with one stone.

08.04.2017 14:06
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Helsworth
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Post: #3
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

I am more pessimistic. The Middle East is a hell hole, and US foreign policy there IS irrational in my honest opinion. The invasion of Iraq as well was irrational. If it was an act of imperialism. Then it was the dumbest act in history. ISIS is the pet project of Saudi Arabia and Turkey is supporting them too.
In 2015, a Turkish PM claimed that sarin gas was smuggled into Syria via Turkey.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/erdogan-maf...87?print=1 Israel, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia have opposing outlooks, however, their short term goals coincide. In my opinion, it was a false-flag, and the US intervened to cover it up, making the UN team's investigation efforts much more difficult, making the exculpation of Assad improbable. The US has been practicing containment (starting up with the USSR and to the present) by ANY and ALL means. Syria is a decades old target on their blacklist.
http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/h...ujahideen/
Whatever ties Putin & Trump, you can bet it's just short term objectives. Trump is a pathological liar & his weakness is that he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shout. His past statements are burying him. And even the far right in the US, and I reckon abroad too, is criticizing him over Syria. If Trump wanted to improve his PR, this whole scheme backfired on him completely. Even the libtards who swallowed the pretext of human rights, are criticizing him heavily that he didn't inform the state department etc.
Like I said before, US foreign policy in the ME is irrational. The US is allowing its allies to do whatever they want. The US is even working with the white helmets, which is a branch of Al Qaeda - the faction involved with the 9/11 attacks, operatives that were trained and schooled in Saudi Arabia. Rational expectations economic theory is dead-wrong, and the same goes for geopolitics. Too many factions within a sphere of influence vying for different goals. And everyone is looking at the short term. Nobody's contemplating the mid or long term.

Also, just as an example of the insanity of the logic. Hillary said that Russia meddling with US elections was an act of war. If that was an act of war, how do you catalog the launching of 59 cruise missiles against a sovereign nation state and member of the UN? And Trump wasn't even funny. He could have launched 69. LoL.


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This post was last modified: 08.04.2017 22:18 by Helsworth.

08.04.2017 22:14
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Ajay Alcos
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Post: #4
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

Helsworth Wrote:
I am more pessimistic. The Middle East is a hell hole, and US foreign policy there IS irrational in my honest opinion. The invasion of Iraq as well was irrational. If it was an act of imperialism. Then it was the dumbest act in history. ISIS is the pet project of Saudi Arabia and Turkey is supporting them too.
In 2015, a Turkish PM claimed that sarin gas was smuggled into Syria via Turkey.


Naturally. However you have to empathise that when domestic responses to such actions are treated at an acceptable level of apathy, it only gives signals for the political establishment to engage in whatever unpopular actions with relative impunity - however irrational they may be.

Helsworth Wrote:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/erdogan-mafia-state-turkish-mp-faces-treason-charges-for-revealing-how-isis-used-turkey-for-smuggling-chemical-weapons/5496387?print=1 Israel, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia have opposing outlooks, however, their short term goals coincide. In my opinion, it was a false-flag, and the US intervened to cover it up, making the UN team's investigation efforts much more difficult, making the exculpation of Assad improbable. The US has been practicing containment (starting up with the USSR and to the present) by ANY and ALL means. Syria is a decades old target on their blacklist.


I would first seriously advise that you greatly devalue any sources emanating from globalresearch. That site is mostly just a hive for polemicists, crackpot conspiracy theories and fetishists with a hard-on for bashing the West in general. For example, this recent article just reeks of that "WE WUZ KANGZ" afro-centric historical revisionism bullshit. The same stuff that claims that Chinese civilisation was started by sub-Saharan Africans or that the likes of Cleopatra and Hannibal were in fact black (when they were by all historical accounts ethnically Greek and Phoenician respectively).

On your other point, I personally doubt that the operation had anything as complex to do with a "false-flag". It was simply much more certainly a reflexive move on the part of Trump, and a way for him to engage in a political ploy (however short-sighted it may be) to divert critical attention from his recent debacles (Russia investigation, failure of AHCA, mini-reshuffling going on in his administration). I do agree however with your assertion that America's main mode of modus-operandi against hostile-states has been the use of containment. Syria has, since its decades-old ties to the USSR/Russia as well as due to its historical animosity towards Israel, been a thorn in the side of U.S interests (and that of its allies) in the region. However Assad's utility as operator for maintaining stability in his own country has long past. Removing him from power of course only result in increasing chaos within Syria and the region. But so long as a single non-Alawite Syrian still breathes on its soil, that chaos will never see an end.

Helsworth Wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/
Whatever ties Putin & Trump, you can bet it's just short term objectives. Trump is a pathological liar & his weakness is that he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shout. His past statements are burying him. And even the far right in the US, and I reckon abroad too, is criticizing him over Syria. If Trump wanted to improve his PR, this whole scheme backfired on him completely. Even the libtards who swallowed the pretext of human rights, are criticizing him heavily that he didn't inform the state department etc.
Like I said before, US foreign policy in the ME is irrational. The US is allowing its allies to do whatever they want. The US is even working with the white helmets, which is a branch of Al Qaeda - the faction involved with the 9/11 attacks, operatives that were trained and schooled in Saudi Arabia. Rational expectations economic theory is dead-wrong, and the same goes for geopolitics. Too many factions within a sphere of influence vying for different goals. And everyone is looking at the short term. Nobody's contemplating the mid or long term.


Most of your points are solid, but your assertion that the White Helmets are a branch of Al-Qaeda is nonsense and quite frankly insulting (I have a friend who's volunteering on the ground for the group). The only actors accusing them of being in-line with the jihadis are either the Russians, Iranians, Syrian government or people with ties to either three. I really don't see the logic of how performing search-and-rescue of children trapped under the rubble made by a Russian warplane gives people the excuse to label them as a terrorist organisation.

Helsworth Wrote:
Also, just as an example of the insanity of the logic. Hillary said that Russia meddling with US elections was an act of war. If that was an act of war, how do you catalog the launching of 59 cruise missiles against a sovereign nation state and member of the UN? And Trump wasn't even funny. He could have launched 69. LoL.


He could have launched 300 missiles plus an full-scale military invasion. In this case however, it is best to give words (especially those coming out of the mouths of politicians) for what they are - wind. One shouldn't be surprised if politicians such as Hillary or Donald go about sabre-rattling or warmongering. The use of such rhetoric is as old as humanity itself. A person could also by your statement about the justification of launching cruise missiles "against a sovereign nation state and member of the UN" bite-back at you and ask what solid justification (under the framework of international law) Russia has/had in intervening militarily in say Georgia or Ukraine. You might as question the justifiability of France's ongoing intervention in Mali or Ethiopia's military efforts at fighting Al-Shabaab and other clandestine groups in Mali. Laws by all accounts are only strong as those who have the willingness, let alone the means, to enforce them.

09.04.2017 07:26
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Helsworth
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Post: #5
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

Other countries break international law too. The Russians had a better motivation on paper, though, given the proximity of those states & the Russian population within them. Better quality bs, if you will.

That Turkish PM, Eren Erdem did make such claims (back in 2015). I am well aware of the other side's bias when it comes to reporting. But if you dig deep enough, you'll find some good content, even on reactionary news outlets. I'm tired with the mainstream promoting (again) war-mongering and western interventionism. More national building bs that leaves behind failed states and more chaos.

I have no doubt the White Helmets do good work. But so does Hamas, in caring for the poor. Not everything's white and black. Most Palestinians, I reckon, would catalog the Israeli Gov as being filled with terrorists, even if some people there were responsible in ensuring good deeds were being carried out. If I was a political dissident in Syria, and a fortune teller (in which I had complete faith in), told me that this is the price for upheaval, I would have said HELL NO! And I would have turned myself and my collaborators in. I'd probably plant a poison pill in my gums, so after the admission, I could die quickly without having to face torture and shit.

So between Assad and the rebels, I choose Assad, between Mubarak and the Muslim Brotherhood, I choose Mubarak.
Quite frankly the West needs to be bashed, because it's hardly criticized in the western press at all. In fact, most of the articles that were coming out initially on Trump's foreign policy after he became POTUS were a lamentation over the possible fall or retreat of US hegemony. Liberals were writing this too. The bad stuff on Russia, I learn from the mainstream, so it balances out.

Anyway, Trump's 180 on Syria and Assad makes now more sense if you look at the immigration ban. The logic seems to be, let's strengthen our borders and check points, while we become more involved (than we already are) in Syria. I don't know how effectual this precaution will be.

I think it imprudent to take this new (revealed) agenda of Washington lightly. People in the US protested Trump in the millions over a lewd sexual remark he said in a private conversation. I doubt many of them will protest against another venture in the ME. Real grassroots stuff is hard to pull off, unless you're backed with funds by oligarchs (like Soros). The Romanian protests definitely were. I recall a few elderly people (which most rightists on FB would like to have them killed to make "savings" at the Government budget via fewer pensions) saying that they had scandals within their own families with their youth, who saw the whole thing differently. One woman was telling a reporter about her situation, "I told him, what happened to you, boy? Did they brainwash you?"

Personally, I don't think it's brainwashing, just a little bit of money and small perks. At leat, that goes a long way for Romanians. In the West, if you're an older person wanting to protest for progressive economics, they call you a dinosaur - cause first and foremost, with this new generation/s, is identity politics and sectionalism. In my country, if you want to protest against austerity, you get no backing. NGOs are interested in protesting only against corruption, i.e. only against the native oligarchs, NEVER against corruption involving multi-nationals.


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This post was last modified: 09.04.2017 10:18 by Helsworth.

09.04.2017 08:47
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Ajay Alcos
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Post: #6
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

Helsworth Wrote:
Other countries break international law too. The Russians had a better motivation on paper, though, given the proximity of those states & the Russian population within them. Better quality bs, if you will.


By that logic, the Saudis, Kuwaitis, Emiratis and Qataris also have a better motivation on paper to break international law by funding Jihadist groups against Assad; considering the danger to the Sunni population of Syria posed by, and in their eyes, a blood-thirsty Shia dictator backed by Tehran. A dictator who in their understanding of history is simply following the genocidal precedents set by Ismail I.

Helsworth Wrote:
That Turkish PM, Eren Erdem did make such claims (back in 2015). I am well aware of the other side's bias when it comes to reporting. But if you dig deep enough, you'll find some good content, even on reactionary news outlets. I'm tired with the mainstream promoting (again) war-mongering and western interventionism. More national building bs that leaves behind failed states and more chaos...

...Quite frankly the West needs to be bashed, because it's hardly criticized in the western press at all. In fact, most of the articles that were coming out initially on Trump's foreign policy after he became POTUS were a lamentation over the possible fall or retreat of US hegemony. Liberals were writing this too. The bad stuff on Russia, I learn from the mainstream, so it balances out.


I read everything. When it has come to eyeing out analyses and articles from sites such as the Daily Express, Breitbart or (god-forbid) InfoWars, the journalistic quality of their content (sources, substantiated evidence etcetera) is very inferior compared to mainstream sources. That however does not mean I ignore the content entirely. "Alt-Right" websites such as those have the utility of offering others the ability to gauge where people of such a political categories stand in regard to issues as well as their own stance. It would be intellectually irresponsible however to see information sourced from such "news" agencies as being even remotely credible.

Mainstream media in most places at least make an effort to accommodate a variety of viewpoints whether they be left or right-wing in their stance. More importantly at the very least they have the widespread preponderance to stick to certain journalistic principles, and not simply go wading into the the murky waters of ideological reactionism or unsubstantiated hearsay as certain other websites do.

Helsworth Wrote:
I have no doubt the White Helmets do good work. But so does Hamas, in caring for the poor. Not everything's white and black. Most Palestinians, I reckon, would catalog the Israeli Gov as being filled with terrorists, even if some people there were responsible in ensuring good deeds were being carried out. If I was a political dissident in Syria, and a fortune teller (in which I had complete faith in), told me that this is the price for upheaval, I would have said HELL NO! And I would have turned myself and my collaborators in. I'd probably plant a poison pill in my gums, so after the admission, I could die quickly without having to face torture and shit.


By extension groups of holocaust deniers such as the UK's "National Action" or "National Rebirth of Poland" also do good work in setting up food-banks and soup-kitchens for the poor (albeit for "white's only"). Human morality as point is not black and white. But I should add that grey itself is composed of differing shades and hues. In this case these "shades and hues" differ when it comes to motivation. Whereas groups like Hamas and Hezbollah go out of their way to create and provide a security net for the least fortunate, Syrian White Helmet's focus also in alleviating suffering of civilians affected by the current conflict whether it be the provision of medical care or clearing rubble from those trapped underneath. Whereas Hamas and Hezbollah foster armed wings equipped with an array of heavy and small-arms weaponry from katyusha rockets to kalashnikovs. The White Helmets have what... Jackhammer's and shovels? I would advise others to focus on another dimension when understanding groups or individuals. Hamas and Hezbollah's motivations are mostly political. The motivations of the White Helmets are mostly humanitarian.

Helsworth Wrote:
So between Assad and the rebels, I choose Assad, between Mubarak and the Muslim Brotherhood, I choose Mubarak.


Preferring strongmen such as Assad, Mubarak or even Gaddafi remaining in power is understandable. When discontent explodes against them however (as has already taken place) in the form of revolution or armed insurrection (or both), it is only a harbinger that their utility at maintaining stability and peace is fast losing traction. In effect their attempts at clinging onto power can only do so much to preventing the inevitable. By extension they are by staying in place only prolonging suffering.

If I had my way, it would better to let things run their course and see the likes of Libya and Syria go the way of Somalia. In Somalia's case, its civil war has been going on since Siad Barre was ousted. Its only recently in the past couple of years that its central government has re-established some degree of order (with the notable help of regional powers such as Ethiopia and Kenya). However even then the country remains divided into contentious mini-states, the most preeminent of which are Somaliland and Puntland. These decentralised regions however maintain a degree of peace and stability so one can assume that in only foreshadows a federalised restructuring of the once defunct Somali State.

What I'm saying is that countries such as Syria and Libya should given a hands-off approach by ALL the other major powers; the Russkies, the Yanks and the "carpet makers" included. If that were to take place and the likes of Assad were to topple from his throne the next day, then Syria will eventually bleed-itself out and in one or three decades some state of stability just like Somalia today (however tenuous). We both know though that as long as one adversarial major power is involved in the conflict, the other has no choice but to counteract them in turn; thus further prolonging the conflict.

Helsworth Wrote:
Anyway, Trump's 180 on Syria and Assad makes now more sense if you look at the immigration ban. The logic seems to be, let's strengthen our borders and check points, while we become more involved (than we already are) in Syria. I don't know how effectual this precaution will be.


We both know its not going to have a tangible long-term effect. All he's done is blow smoke into the viper's eyes and ratchet up the temperature.

Helsworth Wrote:
I think it imprudent to take this new (revealed) agenda of Washington lightly. People in the US protested Trump in the millions over a lewd sexual remark he said in a private conversation. I doubt many of them will protest against another venture in the ME.


When it comes to understanding domestic politics its best to measure to what degree certain actions would effect individuals. Trump's remark against women and his callous approach to such matters as a candidate was naturally seen as a threat to their rights and well-being (which is justified now considering that Trump has already pulled considerable federal resources from organisations offering safe-access to abortion). Therefore his remarks and recent actions in this area have directly affected them. Compare that drone-strikes against civvies in the Middle-East, the average American would probably think "so what" considering its not them getting bombed.

Helsworth Wrote:
Real grassroots stuff is hard to pull off, unless you're backed with funds by oligarchs (like Soros). The Romanian protests definitely were. I recall a few elderly people (which most rightists on FB would like to have them killed to make "savings" at the Government budget via fewer pensions) saying that they had scandals within their own families with their youth, who saw the whole thing differently. One woman was telling a reporter about her situation, "I told him, what happened to you, boy? Did they brainwash you?"

Personally, I don't think it's brainwashing, just a little bit of money and small perks. At leat, that goes a long way for Romanians. In the West, if you're an older person wanting to protest for progressive economics, they call you a dinosaur - cause first and foremost, with this new generation/s, is identity politics and sectionalism. In my country, if you want to protest against austerity, you get no backing. NGOs are interested in protesting only against corruption, i.e. only against the native oligarchs, NEVER against corruption involving multi-nationals.


I don't see what the fuss is about regarding individuals like Soros funding and outspokenly supporting political causes they believe in. In Romania's case as well as the other countries in the region such as Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary or Albania; there is an underlying angst and disgust amongst the people (particular the youth) who find the lack of opportunities and the public money lost to corruption. That decree I watched on Al Jazeera a month or two ago where the Romanian government wanted to relax anti-graft law was bound to generate unrest with or without resources from NGO's. Really its not any different from a Russian bank funding a political party in France or Germany.
So its best not to overstate or overestimate the impact NGO's or multinationals such as Soros have when it comes to influencing media and/or institutions in other countries. Just like we shouldn't overstate or overestimate the Putin and his state apparatus has on influencing Western democracies.

Any funds protest groups or organisations receive from individuals, institutions or states only really help in amplifying the voice of those orgs. If I may add. I'd read on the Guardian quite a while ago where George Soros was admonishing austerity policies imposed on the Greeks as well highlighting the hypocrisy Germany was showing against them (Greece did forgive post-war debt which the Germans owed to them). So really the idea that there is not any financial support to those against austerity is really not the case. Another thing. When it comes to Eastern Europeans I've met, whether they hail from the Balkans, the Carpathians or any of the other post-Soviet/Warsaw pact countries; I detected a sort of disappointment tinged with anger whenever talk came down the establishments in their own countries. If I were to simplify what their views were: "Young people like us shouldn't have to find opportunities in other countries just because there are none at home". You could say that one could easily create a startup or find a job in those countries, however one can agree that any possibility of economic or social advancement in those countries for those starting on the lower end of the social stratum is quite low.

Moving upward in such societies usually requires individuals to get their hands dirty (engage in graft > develop relationships with bureaucrats/politicians > receive bonuses from them). So really there's already a socio-economic powder-keg in place, and all they need to go off is a primer (finances from NGO's) and a spark (an action made by the establishment). When it comes to corruption by multi-nationals you cannot expect each and every country to be able to deal with that issue alone. Sweeping away unsavoury multi-nationals itself requires a broad and deliberate multi-national effort. For such an effort to be viable, it cannot afford to have susceptible establishments partaking within it lest the entire project collapses due to either intransigence or sabotage. Hence it is only logical that people focus on cleaning up their own establishments at home before engaging in something as broad as international corruption. So coming down to it, its really only natural that people in other countries would want to steer clear from ending up like a corrupt basket-case like say homeland, the Philippines.

10.04.2017 12:40
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yangusbeef
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Post: #7
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

Just Fire up the B-52's and carpet nuke the sand monkeys already.

11.04.2017 18:07
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thepresidentmaN
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Post: #8
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

yangusbeef Wrote:
Just Fire up the B-52's and carpet nuke the sand monkeys already.


I don't know man, sounds like a bad idea

13.04.2017 10:51
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Ajay Alcos
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Post: #9
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

yangusbeef Wrote:
Just Fire up the B-52's and carpet nuke the sand monkeys already.


Oh that would have terrible consequences.

The ensuing lack of kebabs, falafels and humus will cause every munchies-addled drunk from Ireland to New Zealand to direct their mind-addled ire towards the U.S. This would no doubt radicalise a good chunk of inebriate sots to form their own terrorist groups, and subject the West to untold suffering - drowning cities in piss, vomit and shit. Nonetheless, your idea does sound like fun Smile

13.04.2017 11:30
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yangusbeef
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Post: #10
RE: Trump commits an act of war against Syria

Ajay Alcos Wrote:

yangusbeef Wrote:
Just Fire up the B-52's and carpet nuke the sand monkeys already.


Oh that would have terrible consequences.

The ensuing lack of kebabs, falafels and humus will cause every munchies-addled drunk from Ireland to New Zealand to direct their mind-addled ire towards the U.S. This would no doubt radicalise a good chunk of inebriate sots to form their own terrorist groups, and subject the West to untold suffering - drowning cities in piss, vomit and shit. Nonetheless, your idea does sound like fun Smile


The explosion of the virgin goat population would more than make up for it. The point about humus is compelling, however. I fear its disappearance would be devastating to the world economy, but perhaps it would spark mass-suicide among "Fuck Capitalism (which they say from their Capitalist iPhone and Starbucks drink, purchased by their millionaire fathers' credit cards)" Liberals... Not saying that's a bad thing, quite the opposite, but it doesn't justify the cost.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/afghanistan-isis-moab-bomb/index.html

Trump has taken my suggestion, dropping the most powerful conventional bomb in the U.S. arsenal.

13.04.2017 17:50
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