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Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

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Helsworth
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Post: #1
Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You



Here's the link to the article cited by Dore https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/oba...-tell-you/


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This post was last modified: 29.01.2017 20:20 by Helsworth.

29.01.2017 20:16
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #2
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

Helsworth Wrote:
Here's the link to the article cited by Dore https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/oba...-tell-you/

Helsworth, did you read the comments to the article linked by you? You can find out in them some interesting things about this issue.

To sum up the information provided in these comments, this article is misinterpreting the situation. Firstly, the CNN actually mentioned the origin of the list of countries in question. Secondly, this list merely listed what countries the person should not visit to not lose the right to visit the USA without getting visa. This affected only those people who had such right, and the citizens of the countries in the list simply never had it.

Trump simply performed cheap bureaucratic trick when he incorporated into his ban the list that was composed for the purpose vastly differing from the aims of his ban.

30.01.2017 01:40
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Helsworth
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Post: #3
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international...on-act-faq

What is the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015? Why is it necessary to once again expand the amount of ESTA information being collected from VWP travelers?

DHS remains concerned about the risks posed by the situation in Syria and Iraq, where instability has attracted thousands of foreign fighters, including many from VWP countries. Such individuals could travel to the United States for operational purposes on their own or at the behest of violent extremist groups.

The U.S. Congress shares this concern, and on December 18, 2015, the President signed into law the Consolidated Appropriations Act 2016, which includes the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act). The Act, among other things, establishes new eligibility requirements for travel under the VWP. These new eligibility requirements do not bar travel to the United States. Instead, a traveler who does not meet the requirements must obtain a visa for travel to the United States, which generally includes an in-person interview at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate.

DHS has updated the ESTA application with additional questions to address the new eligibility requirements under the Act.

What are the new eligibility requirements for VWP travel?

Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:

Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
These restrictions do not apply to VWP travelers whose presence in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen was to perform military service in the armed forces of a program country, or in order to carry out official duties as a full-time employee of the government of a program country. We recommend those who have traveled to the seven countries listed above for military/official purposes bring with them appropriate documentation when traveling through a U.S. port of entry.

The vast majority of VWP-eligible travelers will not be affected by the new Act. New countries may be added to this list at the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security.


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30.01.2017 17:43
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #4
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

Thank you for confirming my words. The purpose of this list was completely unrelated to the limitation of the rights of citizens of the countries in the list, thus Trump's decision to incorporate this list into his ban was just a bureaucratic trick to create false impression that his decision had some continuity with decisions of the previous administration.

30.01.2017 18:54
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Helsworth
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Post: #5
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:

Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
These restrictions do not apply to VWP travelers whose presence in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen was to perform military service in the armed forces of a program country, or in order to carry out official duties as a full-time employee of the government of a program country. We recommend those who have traveled to the seven countries listed above for military/official purposes bring with them appropriate documentation when traveling through a U.S. port of entry.

Obama's shit is just as inconsistent as Trump's list. Any list that doesn't include Saudi Arabia and Pakistan is a faux-list in combating terrorism. It's a stupid and arbitrary move by Trump, certainly.


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This post was last modified: 31.01.2017 20:13 by Helsworth.

30.01.2017 21:06
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #6
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

Helsworth Wrote:
Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:

Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
These restrictions do not apply to VWP travelers whose presence in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen was to perform military service in the armed forces of a program country, or in order to carry out official duties as a full-time employee of the government of a program country. We recommend those who have traveled to the seven countries listed above for military/official purposes bring with them appropriate documentation when traveling through a U.S. port of entry.

The original purpose of the list has nothing common with how it is used by Trump.

Trump with his ban purposely created unique problems for citizens of the countries in the list.

On the other hand, the provisions listed by you never affected citizens of the countries in this list because they never were eligible for the Visa Waiver Program. Moreover, even the citizens of the few countries in the world that are eligible for the Visa Waiver Program are risking only the privilege that the citizens of the rest of the world never had.

This post was last modified: 30.01.2017 22:44 by Lord Alexander.

30.01.2017 22:43
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Helsworth
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Post: #7
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

You're continuing to argue a strawman LA.
The article's point is that the countries picked by Trump were picked by the Obama administration beforehand. That the media reports about discrimination in a biased manner. That's all.


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This post was last modified: 30.01.2017 23:53 by Helsworth.

30.01.2017 23:47
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #8
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

Helsworth Wrote:
You're continuing to argue a strawman LA.
The article's point is that the countries picked by Trump were picked by the Obama administration beforehand. That the media reports about discrimination in a biased manner. That's all.

Helsworth, what are you talking about, did you read my last post? During Obama's administration, this list had no effect on the citizens of countries in the list! Trump simply used this list for his own aims that had nothing common with how it was originally used by Obama's administration.

If for example Trump will decide to subsidize the production of the goods listed in Obama's shopping list, will it be reasonable to claim that the introduction of such subsidy was made possible by Obama's shopping?

Moreover, please do not forget that CNN actually mentioned the origin of the list, so in reality the media reported this issue with sufficient accuracy.

31.01.2017 02:26
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Helsworth
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Post: #9
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

Again, read the original piece. The guy gives links to big name publications who didn't cover the story right. Do a Ctrl + F on those articles using the word Obama, and the name doesn't appear in those stories.
Furthermore, it was insisted that the countries on the ban list were entirely his own arbitrary idea. No, they were not.
Travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States, those who traveled in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011.

At the time Seth wrote the article, the above fact was not mentioned.
Then CNN did an update on the article.
The WSJ and the Independent still haven't updated their articles. So I can't agree with you that the media covered it accurately.


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This post was last modified: 31.01.2017 09:04 by Helsworth.

31.01.2017 09:02
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #10
RE: Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

Helsworth Wrote:
Furthermore, it was insisted that the countries on the ban list were entirely his own arbitrary idea. No, they were not.

It was most certainly the arbitrary idea of Trump to use for his ban the list that was completely unrelated to Trump's plan. Trump as easily could name all countries in the text of the order, but he decided to incorporate this list into his ban to create false impression that there was some continuity with decisions of the previous administration.

The article claims that the list made possible Trump's ban, but this is absolutely not true. There was absolutely no connection between how Obama's administration used the list and how Trump decided to use it.

Quote:
Travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States, those who traveled in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011.

The policy of Obama's administration was that they lose the privilege to travel to USA without visa, but they still can travel to USA with visa. Every day lots of people are receiving US visas and traveling to USA, this is how citizens of most countries in the world are getting access into USA.

Losing the privilege granted by the WVP is in no way similar to the ban on traveling to USA, it just mean that these people were required to use the normal procedure instead of the deluxe one.

This post was last modified: 31.01.2017 11:45 by Lord Alexander.

31.01.2017 11:43
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