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Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

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Lyu
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Post: #91
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

Kopfkratz

25.02.2013 10:19
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #92
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

Lyu Wrote:
Kopfkratz

Hmm, we may have some problem with communication. English is not my main language, so it is possible that I have misunderstood the situation.

You have said that you are thanking me for "repeating that we don't need to discuss it further". But I never said that we should not discuss it further. I made an assumption that your words were a sign of your displeasure with my attitude. I was wrong? Kopfkratz

This post was last modified: 25.02.2013 11:54 by Lord Alexander.

25.02.2013 11:53
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #93
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

Sheep Wrote:
Guys, have a look at the system first.

Sheep, I tried the new system. As I thought, the new approach to Reform Propaganda is bad, especially in the Worlds, in which most players run the “Third World” templates and where Action Points are also used for war and trade.

I ran the Resource power and spent 6 AP on military actions, 3 AP on Recruitment and 4 AP on trade agreements. As a result I managed to introduce Planned Economy only at 149th Quarter. But, even though from the very beginning I constantly improved the Health, Environment and Lifespan ratings, my Regent’s Health has reached zero already at 160th Quarter, and I cannot use Regimen because my Action Points are still in negative after the implementation of Planned Economy. As a result even with Resource power I have very little time to actually do something with my Planned Economy. In poorer templates the chances to use Planned Economy would be close to zero.

I beg you to restore the old cost for Reform Propaganda, because the new cost does nothing to make gameplay more balanced, realistic or fun, and is only benefiting hyperactive warmongers that use it to introduce Militarism, use one or two Recruitments, and initiate random wars during the first few Quarters after start.

This post was last modified: 28.05.2013 21:15 by Lord Alexander.

28.05.2013 21:14
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Sheep
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Post: #94
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

World mode is intended to be more difficult than classic mode - but you can earn additional medals there. Weaker templates are intended to be more difficult - but you can earn more glory points there.

Why do you expect a well-running planned economy with both handicaps plus the new AP system at your first (?) attempt? I know you are an experienced player, but you didn't face that exact challenge more than once. Next time might run better. I am not perfect as a player myself, but I could throw in a few hints how I'd try. However, it might be more interesting for you to figure it out yourself.


29.05.2013 03:05
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #95
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

You completely miss the point. In terms of skill I am average player, just like the majority of players. And Resource powers have longevity potential comparable with Industrial powers and Superpowers, but even they have some problems with initiating high-end reforms in time. Situation is much worse for weaker templates. But the majority of states inside the Worlds are the “Third World” templates that are governed by players of average skill, players like me. You absolutely ignore the situation of “normal” players and concentrate only on the top-notch players that run the “First World” templates. For top-notch players this change may not mean much, but for everyone else it has strong impact on the game.

I provided plenty of serious arguments against the new cost for Reform Propaganda, and you have provided no arguments why new approach is better than the old one. You have not addressed the problems highlighted by me, and your only argument is that this all is not very important. You simply ignore my arguments. Usually it is not easy to offend me, but I admit that the way you reject as unimportant all my concerns about the new cost for Reform propaganda leaves me offended.

29.05.2013 07:35
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Malone
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Post: #96
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

Qualm down please. Well, isn't the Reform Propaganda at the beginning cheaper than before? So you can propagate the first three reforms at the same price as before. The fourth costs one action point more. I think, when you plan carefully, you can realize all your intentions, can't you?


Politischer Test Test site from Ars Regendi for the evaluation and comparison of political alignments

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29.05.2013 11:05
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Rising Phoenix
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Post: #97
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

Malone Wrote:
Qualm down please. Well, isn't the Reform Propaganda at the beginning cheaper than before? So you can propagate the first three reforms at the same price as before. The fourth costs one action point more. I think, when you plan carefully, you can realize all your intentions, can't you?

The problem here is that the high-cost reforms (planned economy, free land, anarcho-stuff, etc.) require too many APs too be 'worth it'. Right now it is as Lord Alenxander said: You reach the point where you can do the reform -- but because you have run out of APs, you cannot enjoy it.

In my opinion the old system should be restored.

29.05.2013 11:48
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Lord Alexander
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Post: #98
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

Malone Wrote:
Qualm down please. Well, isn't the Reform Propaganda at the beginning cheaper than before? So you can propagate the first three reforms at the same price as before. The fourth costs one action point more. I think, when you plan carefully, you can realize all your intentions, can't you?

This only mean that cheap and powerful Reforms like Militarism, Money Reform II, Privatized Healthcare and Negative Income Tax became somewhat more accessible, and more costly and less powerful or less user-friendly Reforms like Free land, Monarchy, Theocracy, Anarcho-syndicalism, Anarcho-Capitalism and Planned Economy became much less accessible.

When you introduced this change you did not take into account that more costly Reforms are not more useful than cheaper ones. Now only old and very well developed “First World” templates with insane Influence will ever use Free Land, Theocracy/Monarchy and Anarcho-syndicalism because for everyone else this will mean spending insane amount of Action Points for very small in-game advantage. And even though Anarcho-Capitalism and Planned Economy provide more serious in-game advantages they also have very severe side effects, so they as well do not justify the insane amount of Action Points that now is required to implement them via Reform Propaganda.

In the “Third World” templates it is very hard to increase Influence up to five or six points, especially taking into account that now the lifespan of Regents was noticeably decreased. For all “average” players it means that high-end Reforms now became accessible only in the “First World” templates.

I believe that it is very bad because it makes the game less realistic (historically, developed countries were much less inclined to make drastic changes in economy and politics than developing countries), less fun (because it decreases the ability of regents to customize their states through Reforms, and decreases the variety of game strategies), and less balanced (because it increases both the gap between the “First World” templates and the “Third World” templates, and the gap between very skillful players and everyone else).

This post was last modified: 29.05.2013 12:53 by Lord Alexander.

29.05.2013 12:52
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Sheep
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Post: #99
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

Lord Alexander Wrote:
I believe that it is very bad because it makes the game less realistic (historically, developed countries were much less inclined to make drastic changes in economy and politics than developing countries)


Looking at Germany's history in the 20th century, there can be several drastic political shifts in short time, in a developed country.

Planned economy was introduced mostly in still developing countries (bad term, I know), but this doesn't mean we have to simulate this by all means.

Quote:
less fun (because it decreases the ability of regents to customize their states through Reforms, and decreases the variety of game strategies)


Ars Regendi is NOT intended to be a sandbox tool to shape your nation at will. You can try exotic approaches, but they are not guaranteed to work out.

Quote:
and less balanced (because it increases both the gap between the “First World” templates and the “Third World” templates


There is no objective evaluation how big the gap between both groups should be. Too extreme (barely a gap or absurd gap) is of course bad in most people's point of view, but for middle ground it's just personal preference whether widening or closing the gap somewhat is good or bad.

Quote:
and the gap between very skillful players and everyone else


Well, a game which offers everything already to average players is a BAD game. Offering special challenges to very good players is GOOD, it makes playing still worthwhile.

Just to be clear, we didn't intend to make "Third World" more difficult or widening any gap between player groups. It's just an acceptable side effect, in my book.


29.05.2013 13:30
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BuffaloBill
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Post: #100
RE: Variable AP-Kosten / Variable AP costs

The Gap between First Word and Third World exist too in reality - doesn't it?

The most of those named "Advanced" Reforms would anyway just kill you state. Let's take "Planned Economy" - i meas: serious perform Planned economy in a developing Country: you gonna die!

29.05.2013 13:55
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